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Thread: ECB last hope as dam breaks in Spain

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    Default ECB last hope as dam breaks in Spain

    There's been so much going on in Europe in recent days that I am somewhat befuddled with what to post, looking for a piece that captures the dire gravity of the situation, both in Europe and globally, but can't find such in any one article. There's been downgrades left and right across Europe from rating agencies such as Moody's and Egan-Jones (aka the little rating agency that could). Borrowing costs in Spain have reached critical levels that are considered unsustainable. Contagion has now spread to Italy who as well, are seeing surging borrowing costs on sales of their government bonds. The Greek elections are on this weekend which has heightened fears of a Grexit - Greece exiting the Eurozone. The effects of economic disruption caused by a Grexit is not known, though governments and companies are bracing themselves for any such catastrophic consequences. There's chatter that markets are pricing in a big event, which would be consistent with a credit crunch or something much like what happened in 2008 - only this time round governments and central banks do not have the resources to effectively deal with another GFC. However there is talk of more coordinated central bank action in the form of quantitative easing and this is why we are seeing some upward movement again on sharemarkets, which remain very volatile. More broadly around the world there is further bad economic data coming out of the US, China and India, to boot. The article below captures some of the sentiment that is prevailing in Europe now which is looking increasingly desperate for solutions.

    ECB last hope as dam breaks in Spain
    By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, International business editor
    8:05PM BST 14 Jun 2012



    "We're facing maximum tension. The situation is unsustainable over time," said the country's finance minister Luis de Guindos. Yields on 10-year Spanish bonds yields punched to almost 7pc, above levels that triggered ECB intervention to back stop Spain last November.

    "The ECB needs to intervene very quickly or it is game over," said Nicholas Spiro from Spiro Asset Management. "There is a whiff of capitulation in the air."

    The dramatic escalation comes just days after the eurozone agreed a €100bn rescue package for the Spanish state to recapitalise its crippled banks. "It is very worrying. Markets are behaving as if the eurozone is heading for break-up," said Jens Sondergaard from the Japanese bank Nomura.

    France's industry minister Arnaud Montebourg said the markets were flying out of control because the ECB was failing to take charge. "We need an ECB that does its job," he said.

    In an astonishing outburst for a French minister, he lashed out at German Chancellor Angela Merkel and the "German right" for driving much of Europe into slump. "Certain European leaders, led by Mrs Merkel, are fixated by blind ideology."

    Spain is caught in a vicious downward spiral as the property crash accelerates, further undermining the banks and state finances. This in turn is drawing Italy into the fire and threatens to overwhelm the EU's rescue machinery.

    "We must have a real circuit breaker," said Sondergaard. "The question is whether the ECB will now blink and go down the route of quantitative easing (QE)".

    He said the ECB should slash interest rates by half a point to 0.5pc and "pre-commit" to half a trillion euros of QE over coming months, blanketing the Spanish and Italian bond markets.

    Nomura said the ECB must act with overwhelming force rather than engaging in piecemeal bond purchases that fail to restore confidence and have the toxic side-effects of pushing existing bondholders down the credit ladder -- the dreaded effect of "subordination".

    "The eurozone has the wrong policy mix across the board. Fiscal policy is too tight; monetary policy is too tight; and the tough regulation of the banks is coming at the wrong time. Together it is all pushing the eurozone to breaking point," he said.

    Spanish premier Mariano Rajoy said in a private letter to EU leaders last week that the ECB is the only body with firepower and nimbleness able to contain the crisis at this point.

    The pleas have so far fallen on deaf ears in Frankfurt where ECB hawks insist that any such intervention to help EMU's struggling debtors would reduce the pressure for root-and-branch reforms.

    The bank said in its June report on Thursday that Spain must make further draconian cuts to meet its deficit target of 3pc of GDP next year. It enraged monetarists by denying yet again that the eurozone faces a serious monetary slowdown or "an abrupt and disorderly adjustment" for banks -- or a credit crunch in layman's language.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...-in-Spain.html

    Btw none of this 'worries' me. And worry is not in any way what I intend to spread. On the contrary, it is but one major sign of the crippling current system that I believe following its full collapse will usher in the new system headed by the anti-Christ and our rapture possibly imminent: "And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." (Luke 21:28).

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    A Global Recession? The Warning Signs Are Everywhere
    By: Larry Kudlow
    CNBC Anchor
    Thursday, 14 Jun 2012 | 3:41 PM ET

    Is it possible that we are already in a global recession but just don’t know it yet?

    And is the U.S. itself—still the epicenter of the world economy—standing on the front edge of another recession?

    I sincerely hope I’m wrong. But warning signs are everywhere.

    The eurozone economy is flat on its back. Greece may be headed for a political crackup and an exit from the euro and European Union. Deposit runs in Greece and elsewhere are beginning, and a credit freeze throughout the continent is not out of the question. Meanwhile, emerging economies like China, India, and Brazil are slumping.
    And the reality isn’t good. Whether you’re a Democrat or Republican, take a look at the numbers:

    Job growth has been slipping badly for three months. Retail sales and factory orders are down two straight months. Real incomes are flat. Household wealth is way underwater from the housing collapse, dropping nearly 40 percent in the last three measured years. And GDP was an anemic 1.9 percent in the first quarter. Nearly all leading Wall Street economists are marking down their second-quarter estimates to 2 percent or less.

    But here’s the key point: 2 percent growth is not a recovery. Many economists would call it a growth recession. When you get that low there’s little margin for error. A shock from Europe, an inventory selloff in the U.S., or almost any unexpected event could push us back into negative territory for an official double-dip recession.
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/47819002

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    Good finds and commentary Steve! Even the MSM on the evening news today led with troubling economic news regarding Spain and the EU and was mistified by the big uptick in the US stock market in light of the bad news? There seems to be no rhyme or reason the the wild swings with the DOW. W seem to be getting really close!!! It is like I am at a tennis match and my head keeps switching back and forth from the global eonomic meltdown and then turning the next second to Syria, Israel and Iran and the Biblical wars brewng. Wow, waht a priveledge to be living in these last of the last days. "When you see these things take place, look up for your redemption is drawing near."
    Jesus is coming now at "Any Moment"! Are you ready?

    Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Praying for the Peace of Jerusalem. Amen.

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    There is no denying we are on the edge of world wide economic collapse.

    I don't believe the church will be here to see it though.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

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    The economic collaspes and the removal of Middle Eastern dictators spell only one thing; the rise of the man of perdition and the NWO. We are living in amazing times--there is about to be a wedding between His bride and King Jesus. Amazing times--this is only going to happen once. God is amazing! Amen. Maranatha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVBORN56 View Post
    Good finds and commentary Steve! Even the MSM on the evening news today led with troubling economic news regarding Spain and the EU and was mistified by the big uptick in the US stock market in light of the bad news? There seems to be no rhyme or reason the the wild swings with the DOW. W seem to be getting really close!!! It is like I am at a tennis match and my head keeps switching back and forth from the global eonomic meltdown and then turning the next second to Syria, Israel and Iran and the Biblical wars brewng. Wow, waht a priveledge to be living in these last of the last days. "When you see these things take place, look up for your redemption is drawing near."
    Yes! Amen! Our redemption draweth nigh!
    1 Thessalonians 5:4 (New International Version)

    4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

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    Wow thanks for sharing those encouraging and amazing thoughts brothers! Awesome!

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    It makes a lot of sense that the Dow is up. Money is fleeing Europe. The Dow represents only the top, largest, most stable companys and are where, typically, people put there money when crisis in bond markets hits. What we should be really keeping an eye out is when something really, really bad happens such as a Greek exit or a Spanish default, or something similar (worse than whats happening now). The Euro will collapse and the credit markets will freeze up. The ECB cannot save the Euro anymore nor can the IMF or any other agency. Our banks are interlocked with the European banks far worse than people realize.

    What we will see as a result is the real possiblility of a bank holiday (banks will close with no access or very limited access, credit cards won't work, debit cards won't work, no one will except checks, etc.

    Its surreal. Were watching the world come apart in slow motion right before our eyes. Each day brings some new crisis, closer to collapse. In my weakness I say to the Lord, lets just get it over with and come and get us!! But I know He is holding it together it seems like it for a little while, waiting for more to come to him.

    Make no mistake, God is in control. Satan and his minions are preparing the world for the arrival of the antichrist. The end game is now being played out.

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    Greek banks may be "only days" away from collapse: Bianco - Fast Forward



    Having posted this I should mention that I am not suggesting or otherwise expecting a Greek banking collapse (and whatever else mentioned in the video as possiblities) are a certain outcome. I understand God is in control and I agree that any major disruption that is going to lead to uncontrollable disorderly global economic collapse will likely be a world turning point at which we will be gone. And great post^ Scotty!

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    From Scotty:
    Its surreal. Were watching the world come apart in slow motion right before our eyes. Each day brings some new crisis, closer to collapse. In my weakness I say to the Lord, lets just get it over with and come and get us!! But I know He is holding it together it seems like it for a little while, waiting for more to come to him.

    Hey, Scotty! Same here. "In my weaknesss...." I do the same dear brother. I know our Lord is holding it together and waiting for the last soul to come into His Fold, but I, too, just want to get it over with and for Him to come and get us! It is so very, very true. We ARE living in such amaaaaaaaazing times!!!
    Last edited by Steve53; June 15th, 2012 at 07:44 AM.
    Now when these things begin to take place, look up and raise your heads, because your redemption is drawing near Luke21:28




    Cindy


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    with the markets going up in the midst of what is happening in spain and greece, this is a sign that the ECB/IMF/U.S. has told the banks that they will soon be flooding them with liquidity.

    Watch in a few days there will be a report of more money printing up to a another trillion to settle things down.

    Some how the party that will be pro euro will win the elections in greece over the weekend.

    I predict they will buy some more time and when Italy goes down, they will do it again or it will fall apart fast going into france, u.k. and portugal.

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    The whole vineyard has been struck with the blight of mankind. One can not join the rotten grapes with the seemingly healthy ones and expect the diseased to be made whole again. You can cut it all down and burn it, but this time your evil has destroyed the very earth beneath your feet and nothing good will ever prosper there again.

    Unemployment raging. Children starving. Rumors of war and wars being waged. Rebellion in the streets. Who could possibly resist the one who will suddenly appear falsely promising to make it all new again... for a small price? All of Europe is now ripe for the picking. The rest of the world will shortly follow once we're gone.

    Yes, our time remaining is now so short that we dare not speak of it. Rejoice and be glad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulG View Post
    with the markets going up in the midst of what is happening in spain and greece, this is a sign that the ECB/IMF/U.S. has told the banks that they will soon be flooding them with liquidity.

    Watch in a few days there will be a report of more money printing up to a another trillion to settle things down.

    Some how the party that will be pro euro will win the elections in greece over the weekend.

    I predict they will buy some more time and when Italy goes down, they will do it again or it will fall apart fast going into france, u.k. and portugal.
    I don't doubt that is a likely outcome, though we will soon see. There's also the possibility of a deadlock where neither political party can form government, although I think after the last election result, Greeks will vote for one party or the other rather than with intention of voting in protest which is why the last election result turned out as it were.

    Yep the monetary easing will continue but have you noticed how rapidly the policy is resulting in increasing diminishing returns with each major bailout?

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    Quote Originally Posted by $teve View Post
    I don't doubt that is a likely outcome, though we will soon see. There's also the possibility of a deadlock where neither political party can form government, although I think after the last election result, Greeks will vote for one party or the other rather than with intention of voting in protest which is why the last election result turned out as it were.

    Yep the monetary easing will continue but have you noticed how rapidly the policy is resulting in increasing diminishing returns with each major bailout?

    The can they are kicking down the road is getting heavier and heavier. Pretty soon they will break their foot on it.

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    I just want to mention something. There is the assertion that the rapture will happen before the economy collapses. However, there is no guarantee of that. The global economy run by the 10 kings will be in place before the AC steps on the scene and uproots 3 of them so the collapse and restructuring could all happen before the rapture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shonsu View Post
    The can they are kicking down the road is getting heavier and heavier. Pretty soon they will break their foot on it.
    Yep, indeed.

    I think its worth also acknowledging that an outright victory for the Syriza party at the Greek elections doesn't necessarily mean an automatic Grexit. This is a view held by Fitch ratings agency. They contend that the rest of the Euro won't allow Greece to exit due to its potentially catastrophic consequences, irregardless of Greek Syriza government economic policies. Just another possibility among a myriad of possibilities.

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    Hey, Scotty! Same here. "In my weaknesss...." I do the same dear brother. I know our Lord is holding it together and waiting for the last soul to come into His Fold, but I, too, just want to get it over with and for Him to come and get us! It is so very, very true. We ARE living in such amaaaaaaaazing times!!!
    Hey Little Bug I'm with ya. I keep thinking of the verse "Thy kingdom come Thy will be done" I want his kingdom to come but if its his will that today is not the day he calls us home, than whats his will for me today? Who should I speak to today about the Lord? How many of us knowing what is coming have been prompted lately about speaking with some one about their salvation? I know I have!! I know of at least a dozen people right now that I have got to talk to!! Maybe our Lord is just waiting for us to do our part before he comes.



    Hey Shonsu, you are absolutely right. While I would hope and pray we would be raptured before the collapse of the Euro and world wide economic collapse that will follow, there is no promise that the rapture will occur then. We simply don't know how far into this crisis or any other we will go before God calls us home.

    Back to the Euro problem. The fundamental underlying problem has not changed at all. European Governments, especially Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland and others to some degree are over spending their budgets, massively. The only solution that will temporarily stabilize things is money printing. (which of course is only, as people said, kicking the can down the rd and seriously weekening the currency.) But it can only go on so long. The Europeans cannot print money so easily. We are in the same boat as them but we can print money with no qualms. Thats why we, at least on the surface, seem to be better off. But were not at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shonsu View Post
    I just want to mention something. There is the assertion that the rapture will happen before the economy collapses. However, there is no guarantee of that. The global economy run by the 10 kings will be in place before the AC steps on the scene and uproots 3 of them so the collapse and restructuring could all happen before the rapture.
    Your right of course it could be any time but my thinking goes like this. In addition to the coming global economic collapse is the coming tipping point with Syria, Isarel and Iran. This most likely will usher in Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39. The second of these two wars is almost certainly after the church is gone. We are in the middle of a plethera of end time events that are all coming together at the same time.

    It is looking to me like we are going home soon. Jesus said He would return as in the Days of Noah and as a thief in the night. One could concude it will be a big surprise and during a time that is business as usual.

    The global crash will end the time of business as usual!

    Maranatha!
    Jesus is coming now at "Any Moment"! Are you ready?

    Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Praying for the Peace of Jerusalem. Amen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVBORN56 View Post
    Your right of course it could be any time but my thinking goes like this. In addition to the coming global economic collapse is the coming tipping point with Syria, Isarel and Iran. This most likely will usher in Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39. The second of these two wars is almost certainly after the church is gone. We are in the middle of a plethera of end time events that are all coming together at the same time.

    It is looking to me like we are going home soon. Jesus said He would return as in the Days of Noah and as a thief in the night. One could concude it will be a big surprise and during a time that is business as usual.

    The global crash will end the time of business as usual!

    Maranatha!

    Yes, that very well could be. Maranatha indeed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WVBORN56 View Post
    Your right of course it could be any time but my thinking goes like this. In addition to the coming global economic collapse is the coming tipping point with Syria, Isarel and Iran. This most likely will usher in Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38-39. The second of these two wars is almost certainly after the church is gone. We are in the middle of a plethera of end time events that are all coming together at the same time.

    It is looking to me like we are going home soon. Jesus said He would return as in the Days of Noah and as a thief in the night. One could concude it will be a big surprise and during a time that is business as usual.

    The global crash will end the time of business as usual!

    Maranatha!
    I truly believe the rapture will happen before or right at the time the economic collapse happens or ME war. There is just to many things pointing towards imminent rapture besides economics. ME powder keg, collapse of morals in society, falling away or apostasy of so many christian ministrys/people, natural disasters etc, etc., But I simply cannot state definitively that scriptures teach we wont see economic hardship or a economic collapse before the rapture.

    Like I said I hope and pray it will be soon!!!! Maranatha!!

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