Unbelieving preachers get help to 'come out' as open atheists

[iSong6:3]

I don't have a specific message, nor do I have the time to look either, lol. If I happen to hear something, maybe I can post it. But I am glad to hear that this is not the official stance. I have wondered about this for a long time--it seemed pretty surprising to me. Thanks!

Call him!..."Hi Mike, this is Jan from northern Nevada..."

[iSong6:3]

With all respect, I disagree with this interpretation as it stands here. I seem to be in a minority, in thinking that outward actions sometimes don't match inward thoughts and beliefs sometimes, for a variety of reasons. I knew very well what the gospel message meant and I still know the depth of its seriousness and meaning. I knew it even when I was rebelling, although you wouldn't have known it at the time. I don't know if this man was ever saved, but it SEEMS he was not; who am I to make a judgment from afar, after reading this one article? Therefore, instead of pointing fingers and establishing that he must not have been saved, to be doing these things, I'd rather pray that IF he was never saved, that he is soon. Just me, it seems.

I need to leave the board, as it seems I was never a Christian, and am questionably one now because of what I think about the weak heart of man and the depth of the the depravity and insidiousness of the sin nature. I feel rather unwelcome and judged, myself. Adieu.

If you've read bits of my testimony you know that after I was born again I backslid terribly for many years, things too shameful to mention even for pagans. It's one reason I'm so passionate against the LS doctrine. I know the Word and God's truly amazing grace and have lived His promises of the extent He will go to not lose one of His own.

No one here has judged you or your salvation. This wasn't about you at all, we are talking about issues.

You've been having a rough patch. Step back, take a few breaths, ask yourself if you aren't throwing away something precious for something foolish.

[tbrian40]

It was only about a paycheck to them. We see this throughout America and the world.

[iSong6:3]

Call him!..."Hi Mike, this is Jan from northern Nevada..."

Jan, did you catch it today? I came in at I'm guessing halfway into their (his and Steve from equipthesaints.com) answer to whether or not we can lose our salvation. They were indeed quite impassioned that we can.

From what I heard they said salvation doesn't mean we still don't have free will, talked a lot about Jude, said that God cut off former believers from among Israel so He would the Church too, they used the "endure to the end" verse.

I would say that the OT and Trib saints weren't indwelt with the Holy Spirit as we are, we also believe they are at risk for losing salvation, we have several threads on this, one currently in Prophecy.

The key difference is the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the Church.

Does Kestler pastor a CC church? I know this is not the stand of the CC's as a whole, I need to find their statement of beliefs where I read it.

[Jan51]

Luminary: I John 2:19 does not refer to those Christians who get off the track for a while and later return. It would be talking about those who walk away and never come back. It is saying that person did not "lose" or "leave" their salvation; they were never saved. I was not talking about you! I loved your story!

HeIsEnough: I listened to TEMA today (6/18) and sure enough, both topics came up again! Mike Kestler and Steve Matheson. Today's program should be in the archives soon. And I misstated their take on the Holy Spirit. They say that every believer is indwelt, but the baptism of the Spirit is a "second work" of the Spirit that may come later. I did a google search on CC and eternal security and everything I clicked on confirmed the "modified" view of eternal security, including Chuck Smith.

[iSong6:3]

Kestler is not part of the CC fellowship, just checked.

In the church's statement of faith, #9 is about the laying on of hands to receive the second gift of the Holy Spirit. Seems they have some trouble separating what was for Israel, what was for the birth of the Church, what is for the Church now, what is for the Trib saints.

ETA: Matheson is a CC pastor.

[HeIsEnough]

I listened to TEMA today (6/18) and sure enough, both topics came up again! Mike Kestler and Steve Matheson. Today's program should be in the archives soon. And I misstated their take on the Holy Spirit. They say that every believer is indwelt, but the baptism of the Spirit is a "second work" of the Spirit that may come later. I did a google search on CC and eternal security and everything I clicked on confirmed the "modified" view of eternal security, including Chuck Smith.

Don't know what to say about Kestler, never heard of him, he doesn't speak for any CC. The four I've been to never taught either of those doctrines, so you can't just lump them all together. CC's are not really top-down driven, so there will be variations. CC's tend to back away from controversial doctrines, or at least downplay the differences, right or wrong.

[JulesPeeps]

"I was the one on the right track, and you were the ones that were going to burn in hell," MacBain told the crowd. "And I'm happy to say as I stand before you right now, I'm going to burn with you."

This brought tears to my eyes. How can you just say that you are willing to burn in hell, how can you know of that torture, and accept the fact that you will go through it for eternity??

Saying that you know hell is a real place, implies that you know there's a Heaven. So that means that you know God is in heaven, that He sent His Son to die for you. And that he loves you and will forgive you of ALL your sins. How can you know that truth, and turn away from it??

They may not have been saved...

1 John 2:19

[Tall Timbers]

During the Vietnam war, folks went into religious ministry in an effort to avoid the draft. A lot of those folks would still be around.