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Thread: Higgs-Boson (god-particle) discovered

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    Default Higgs-Boson (god-particle) discovered

    I cant see a thread about this anywhere so I thought I would start one.
    Physicists at CERN have today given a news conference announcing the discovery of the Higgs Boson or anyway a Higgs-Boson like particle. A breakthrough day for science.

    As a christian I am totally relaxed about this. I dont have any problem with other sub atomic particles such as the proton, electron or quarks. Christians have nothing to fear from science. True science will not contradict the Bible although many scientists simply dismiss findings that they dont like.

    I believe God wants us to make scientific discoveries and to see the beauty of the universe he has created. He has given us an enquiring mind

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    The better understanding of the universe provides a way to better understand the One Who created it all. It's a great discovery if true, but scientists are already using this discovery to further cement the established theories, instead of using it to critique them.
    Ephesians 3:17-18
    That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

    "It is by faith alone we are saved, but not by faith which is alone."

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    The search for the "god particle" has been important because, if ever discovered, it is supposed to be able to account for the beginning of the universe (i.e., matter from non-matter) without outside intervention (i.e., a Creator, or aliens). This is extremely important to humanistic, atheistic evolution--the ability to explain everything without the need for God.

    I heard this reported twice on FOX news today by two different reporters, and both reported it had been found. This was interesting to me, because I'd already seen articles and headlines saying they had almost discovered it, or were really close to discovering it, or had discovered evidence of it. One said they had discovered the shadow and the footprint of it.

    This is the way evolutionists have always operated. Claim more than they really have, and only those who listen or read carefully really get what they are saying. Or make a rash claim initially, then later when it is proven to not be what they claimed, make a quiet disclaimer. Meanwhile, the initial claim is the impression that sticks in everybody's head. Many never hear the disclaimer. And many others continue to repeat the initial claim after the disclaimer has come out, not having researched enough to know there even was a disclaimer.

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    It is an extremely important and very exciting discovery. It won't make much difference in the short term, however - most theoretical physicists for the past few years have been working their equations on the assumption that the Higgs Boson does exist. What it does do (if confirmed) is complete the Standard Model of particle physics, and also provides much needed evidence that the Standard Model is probably correct. Also, it will allow us to pin down a very important attribute of the particle, namely its mass. In the past, we were hampered by the fact that we had no idea how heavy the particle is, although it was already known that it was very heavy. We now know its mass - 125 GeV, or about 180 times the mass of a proton. This makes it the second most massive particle, after the so-called "top quark".

    I do wish that science journalists would stop referring to it as the "God particle", however. The Higgs Boson is theorized to be the link between mass and energy. It is the particle that imparts mass to all other particles (except the neutrino, for some reason). I really don't see how that connects to "God" in any way.

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    Science is true knowledge/understanding and exists along with God's creation, as long as scientists are honest in their theories/discoveries and avoid myth their is no contradiction with scripture.

    Atheists will continue in their search for disapproval of God's existence, or a replacement for God, and will land on many silly conclusions, such as Dawkin's myth concluding man's life began on the backs of crystals http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...xpelled-review.

    Replacing God with myth silliness will always be around and they will ride their latest fad for few years until another replacement comes along, anything, except the real God, will keep them partially satisfied until Jesus returns to claim his rightful throne.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan51 View Post
    The search for the "god particle" has been important because, if ever discovered, it is supposed to be able to account for the beginning of the universe (i.e., matter from non-matter) without outside intervention (i.e., a Creator, or aliens).
    Where did you hear that?

    The Higg's Boson is important because it is believed to be what gives other particles their mass.

    It was predicted to exist by the Standard Model, so not finding it would require that the model be changed or discarded. Finding it would mean that they are on the right track and one step closer to a unified theory of Gravity.
    The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
    Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
    (Psa 19:1b-2)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTaylor View Post
    I do wish that science journalists would stop referring to it as the "God particle", however. The Higgs Boson is theorized to be the link between mass and energy. It is the particle that imparts mass to all other particles (except the neutrino, for some reason). I really don't see how that connects to "God" in any way.
    +1
    The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
    Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
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    I do not need any proof at all.I believe on Faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTaylor View Post
    I really don't see how that connects to "God" in any way.
    It's just another one of the world's attempt to disprove that the one and only God--the triune God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit--exists. No matter how nicely this information may fit into how He spoke the universe into being, godless intellectuals and scientists will make this idol a convenient, modern and acceptable belief for the masses who are already rejecting the Lord.
    Rom. 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
    Rom. 8:28 God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hootmon View Post
    Where did you hear that?

    The Higg's Boson is important because it is believed to be what gives other particles their mass.

    It was predicted to exist by the Standard Model, so not finding it would require that the model be changed or discarded. Finding it would mean that they are on the right track and one step closer to a unified theory of Gravity.
    . . . and it's concepts like this that make my brain go 'splodey when it comes to science. I am endlessly fascinated by science, especially astronomy and all that, and I understand simple concepts (chemical change, physical change, Newton's Laws, gravity, etc.), but some sciency stuff just escapes me. How can something give mass to something? Things have mass -- why does there have to be something to give mass to them?? How does this something "give" mass? I do understand the difference between mass and weight: mass is how dense something is, weight is how much it . . . well . . .weighs. Would something with greater mass have more Higgs Boson particles than something with lesser mass? And where exactly would the Higgs Boson particles be -- in the atoms? Atoms on their own?

    In high school, I had enough problems with electron shells -- things like Higgs Boson, quarks, quantum physics, etc. just makes my mind go .

    Maybe after we're Raptured, I'll be able to understand it all.
    "Oir is leatsa an rioghachd, agus an cumhachd, agus a gloir, gu siorraidh, Amen." ("For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever, Amen" -- Scots Gaelic)

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    Now that they believe in the God particle, it's just a matter of getting them to believe in the whole God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan51 View Post
    The search for the "god particle" has been important because, if ever discovered, it is supposed to be able to account for the beginning of the universe (i.e., matter from non-matter) without outside intervention (i.e., a Creator, or aliens). This is extremely important to humanistic, atheistic evolution--the ability to explain everything without the need for God.
    I really don't see it that way. Particle physicists claim that the Higgs (along with all the other elementary particles) was created in the Big Bang, meaning that it couldn't have existed before that point, so it doesn't really get them any closer to explaining the origin of the Universe without God. There is a branch of physics, known at String Theory, or M-Theory, that seeks to explain what the Universe was like before the Big Bang. Unfortunately for String Theorists, there is no proof that any of their theories are correct - and, in fact, due to the very nature of the theory, it cannot be tested. This is why theoretical physics has been in a state of stalemate for the last four or five decades. Hopefully, the discovery of the Higgs will provide the spark to get particle physics moving again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan51 View Post
    I heard this reported twice on FOX news today by two different reporters, and both reported it had been found. This was interesting to me, because I'd already seen articles and headlines saying they had almost discovered it, or were really close to discovering it, or had discovered evidence of it. One said they had discovered the shadow and the footprint of it.

    This is the way evolutionists have always operated. Claim more than they really have, and only those who listen or read carefully really get what they are saying. Or make a rash claim initially, then later when it is proven to not be what they claimed, make a quiet disclaimer. Meanwhile, the initial claim is the impression that sticks in everybody's head. Many never hear the disclaimer. And many others continue to repeat the initial claim after the disclaimer has come out, not having researched enough to know there even was a disclaimer.
    This is actually the way that Science works. All that the researchers can say for sure right now is that they have found a new Boson (a particle that decays into two protons) with a mass of 125GeV that is 5 standard deviations from the mean (meaning that it is extremely unlikely to be random noise in the LHC's particle detector). The mass of the particle is in the range previously theorized for the Higgs. They still have a ways to go. They need to show that this new particle has a spin of 0 and a neutral charge before they can claim with more certainty that it is in fact the Higgs Boson. In the meantime, they have published what they have found so far so that other research teams can get to work on answering the question of whether this new particle is actually the Higgs or not. If it turns out to be confirmed, expect more sensational headlines from journalists. If it turns out that the CERN team was wrong, they will still announce their findings, but most journalists won't cover it because it's not the kind of news that makes headlines.

    It's important to distinguish between what researchers say, and how the media interprets it. Unfortunately, most science journalists have only a rudimentary understanding of science, and they have to come up with a headline that will grab eyeballs (and thus advertising revenue). As a result, many articles that appear in mainstream newspapers make claims and draw conclusions that the researchers never intended. So, you are correct in a sense - but the blame should be laid at the feet of the journalists, not the scientist themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hootmon View Post
    Where did you hear that?
    I have no idea where I heard that--from reading over the years about the theory of evolution. So I did a search to see what I could find, and I thought these articles were saying that:

    http://www.web-books.com/eLibrary/ON.../12SHiggs.html

    http://www.wired.com/science/discove.../2002/08/54507

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...165431909.html

    http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...achenbach-text

    But then I read this

    http://www.apologeticspress.org/apPu...7&article=1500

    and I see that I may have not understood the implications, so maybe I drew wrong conclusions.

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    You know what amazes me about scientists? They will never be able to locate the human soul within a person or be able to travel to the fringes of the universe. God is the Maker of mysteries and the Purveyor of secrets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbrian40 View Post
    You know what amazes me about scientists? They will never be able to locate the human soul within a person or be able to travel to the fringes of the universe. God is the Maker of mysteries and the Purveyor of secrets.
    This is true. Science is limited to that which can be observed and measured. The human soul is not measurable (as far as I know). That's why we have the Bible - to pick up where Science stops.

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    Instead of being called 'The God Particle' Seems it should be called 'The Mass' particle.

    If found it does help increase our understanding of how the underlying structure of the universe works. Now, if we can just get around the whole speed of light thing so I can get to another planet.. The liberals on this one are driving me nutts....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musician in His house View Post
    How can something give mass to something? Things have mass -- why does there have to be something to give mass to them?? How does this something "give" mass?
    In technical terms, its all about 'wibbly-wobbly gravity-wavity'.


    Quote Originally Posted by Musician in His house View Post
    I do understand the difference between mass and weight: mass is how dense something is, weight is how much it . . . well . . .weighs.
    Weight is how much force a gravitational force exerts on a mass.

    You weigh less on the Moon because its gravity is weaker. Your mass would remain the same as on Earth.


    Quote Originally Posted by Musician in His house View Post
    Would something with greater mass have more Higgs Boson particles than something with lesser mass? And where exactly would the Higgs Boson particles be -- in the atoms? Atoms on their own?
    They would be part of the makeup of the particles themselves.

    Atoms are made up of Protons, Electrons and Neutrons. Those three are made up of other things; Quarks, etc...
    The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
    Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
    (Psa 19:1b-2)

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    Thank you, Hoot.
    "Oir is leatsa an rioghachd, agus an cumhachd, agus a gloir, gu siorraidh, Amen." ("For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever, Amen" -- Scots Gaelic)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan51 View Post
    I have no idea where I heard that--from reading over the years about the theory of evolution. So I did a search to see what I could find, and I thought these articles were saying that:

    http://www.web-books.com/eLibrary/ON.../12SHiggs.html

    http://www.wired.com/science/discove.../2002/08/54507

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...165431909.html

    http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/20...achenbach-text

    But then I read this

    http://www.apologeticspress.org/apPu...7&article=1500

    and I see that I may have not understood the implications, so maybe I drew wrong conclusions.
    pagans still searching for the big bang
    The Higgs Boson particle, presumptuously called the “God Particle” by some physicists, is a theoretical elementary particle that is predicted by the Standard Model of particle physics, but which has yet to be observed by physicists through experimentation. It is “thought to be the fundamental unit of matter” (“Has Quest for the Elusive…?” 2011). In theory, the particle could explain how other elementary particles have mass. But why do some call it the “God Particle”? To Big Bang-believers, the Higgs Boson is “a theoretical energy particle which many scientists believe helped give mass to the disparate matter spawned by the Big Bang” (“Scientists Close in…,” 2010). Big Bang theorists consider its existence “crucial to forming the cosmos after the Big Bang” (“Scientists…,” emp. added). Therefore, the particle is god-like to such sadly deluded individuals.

    Recently, in an article titled, “Has Quest for the Elusive ‘God Particle’ Succeeded?,” Fox News reported on a “controversial rumor…based on a leaked internal note from physicists at the Large Hadron Collider (LHC)” that began circulating in the public eye (“Has Quest...”). The rumor suggests that the LHC, a particle accelerator located in Switzerland, may have run across proof of the Higgs’ existence. The leaked note “details an unexpected ‘bump’ in emissions that may be proof of the long-sought particle” (“Has Quest...”). Wait a minute. A “bump” could be proof of the Higgs Boson? Surely such an occurrence, which could be the result of any number of possibilities, would not constitute valid proof of anything to scientists. Although many scientists these days would consider such a vague incident enough proof to satisfy their longings, James Gillies, a spokesman for the European Organization for Nuclear Research responsible for building the LHC, admitted that “the leaked note faces several layers of scrutiny before it could be submitted for publication [in a scholarly scientific publication—JM].” He explains: “Things such as this show up quite frequently in the course of analysis…. It’s way too soon to get excited, I’m afraid. It’s not the physics find of the millennium, unfortunately” (“Has Quest...,” emp. added). So, atheistic evolution still stands as scientifically impossible.

    As stated above, evolutionists consider the existence of the Higgs Boson “crucial to forming the cosmos after the Big Bang” (“Scientists…,” emp. added). Notice that without the existence of this theoretical particle, Big Bang theorists recognize that the Universe could not even form after the Big Bang theoretically occurred. Its existence would not prove that the Universe did form in the manner suggested by Big Bang Theory. Its existence would not even prove that the Universe could form after a hypothesized Big Bang occurred. Further, its existence would not prove that the Big Bang itself could occur at all. Its existence would not prove that matter could exist forever or pop into existence out of nothing, one of which must be true in order for the Big Bang to even get started. And its existence would certainly not prove that the scientific laws governing the Universe could write themselves into existence. However, without the existence of the particle, theorists know the Big Bang could not happen. Thus, discovery of its existence would not prove anything in the end, but only allow evolutionists to cross one of the many chasms that stand in the way of their theory even being considered a remote possibility. In other words, the Big Bang has not even reached square one in the realm of proof. It still lies firmly in the realm of impossibility. Bottom line: the Creation model still stands as the most logical explanation for the origin of the Universe—the model that matches the scientific evidence.
    it began with a whisper and ends with a bang!



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMSAVED View Post
    I do not need any proof at all.I believe on Faith.

    Amen!! That's how I feel as well
    "They're not gonna catch us. We're on a mission from God."-Elwood Blues

    "The Lord is my shepherd....Even if I walk through a very dark valley, I WILL NOT be afraid because you are with me." - Psalm 23

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