Injustice for King Saul?

[Buzzardhut]

He just didn't repent with his whole heart, this led to his downfall

His personal ambitions were bigger for himself than his concept of God.

[Kliska]

He just didn't repent with his whole heart, this led to his downfall

He didn't trust God. David trusted God. It's all about faith. Saul was human, David was human. Saul was a sinner, David was a sinner. The only effective difference is faith. Then, we can see how that lack of faith on Saul's part affected the situation and him.

[antitox]

Everything God does is just.

Here's my spin: everybody wanted a king, so God gave them one. It would have been David but David was too young at that time and wasn't ready yet. So God installed an available man temporarily because they wanted one right then.

Obviously there's more to it than that but that's just one point. There are tons of examples in the bible where people could question God's justice, but the plan and His ways are far more reaching than the snippets we pull out and question. We just don't have the foreknowledge and wisdom that God has.

Therefore, Paul says in quote form in Romans 9 that one would say, "why does he still find fault?" Then states "Will what is molded say to its molder "Why have you made me thus?" Before that, "Then who are you O man, to answer back to God?"

This is really beyond human scope. For we are then really treading in territory where we don't belong when we do that.

[Buzzardhut]

Basically you get what you ask/pray for.
Praise God sometimes you don't.

[Steve53]

Basically you get what you ask/pray for.
Praise God sometimes you don't.

[JPE]

Bernard, I just heard a very good sermon by Warren Wiersbe called "The Danger of Substitutes" that examines Saul's life and motives. I'm sure it would be very interesting to you. I'll try to add a link if I can.

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/m...w=itemComments

[Geri7]

Many preachers say Saul was not saved. However, after reading this passage, I "think" he was.

I Samuel 28:18-19
After Saul consulted with the witch of Endor (which was wrong), Saul was seeking the Prophet Samuel.

Samuel was called up out of the grave and replied to Saul "because thou obeyedst not the voice of the Lord, nor executedst his fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore hath the Lord done this thing unto thee this day." "Moreover the Lord will also deliver Israel with thee into the hand of the Philistines; and tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me: the Lord also shall deliver the host of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."

Since Samuel died and was in Abraham's bosom in sheol at the time, the statement "tomorrow shalt thou and thy sons be with me" indicates Saul went to Abraham's bosom as well since that was where Samuel was.

Or does this statement mean something else?

[JPE]

I take it simply to mean "dead like me."

[Mtown]

I take it simply to mean "dead like me."

Notice he says "with me" though. Interesting verses here, it looks to me as if Saul might have been saved?

[JPE]

If Samuel had authority to judge Saul and know his eternal fate, it would make more sense to me that he was laying a final verdict on Saul and telling him what his eternal fate is. That is why I tend to think he is simply saying that Saul will be with him in the grave. Just my take.

[Kliska]

Also, the grave had two separate sides; same place but with a split in destination.

[Geri7]

Also, the grave had two separate sides; same place but with a split in destination.

Are you saying that King Saul lost his salvation? The Bible says you can't, its secure in Jesus "no one can pluck them out of my hand." However, you can lose "joy" when you sin. King David, after he sinned, cried out and said "restore unto me the Joy of my salvation".

Personally, I think King Saul was saved, because why would God anoint an unsaved king to rule over Israel? I believe Saul became disobedient and lost his joy and had to step down because he was disobedient to God. King Saul became jealous of David and refused to step down, so God took him and his sons out of the way.

Today, there are many saved Chrisitans who are continually disobedient and God also takes them home to heaven early too.

[JPE]

We probably shouldn't be jumping to conclusions about anyone's salvation, not even our own. Many have gone to the grave confident of salvation only to discover after it's too late that they're counted among the tares; may we not be sorted with them.

As far as Saul being anointed king and so presumed to be righteous before God, remember that Ahab and Omri were kings of Israel too.

[Geri7]

We probably shouldn't be jumping to conclusions about anyone's salvation, not even our own. Many have gone to the grave confident of salvation only to discover after it's too late that they're counted among the tares; may we not be sorted with them.

As far as Saul being anointed king and so presumed to be righteous before God, remember that Ahab and Omri were kings of Israel too.

JPE,
I agree with you, only the Lord knows the heart of man and who is truly saved.

Here is an interesting passage. II Samuel 1:17-27 This is the memorial speech that David gave for Saul and Jonathan

verse 23 "Saul and Jonathan were lovely and pleasant in their lives, and in their death they were not divided . . ."



Since Jonathan was a Godly man and best friend to David, I read this memorial tribute that both their souls (in death) were not divided but in paradise together. Only time will tell. Hopefully the rapture will be soon and we will find out.

[RandallB]

Are you saying that King Saul lost his salvation? The Bible says you can't, its secure in JePsus "no one can pluck them out of my hand." However, you can lose "joy" when you sin. King David, after he sinned, cried out and said "restore unto me the Joy of my salvation".

Personally, I think King Saul was saved, because why would God anoint an unsaved king to rule over Israel? I believe Saul became disobedient and lost his joy and had to step down because he was disobedient to God. King Saul became jealous of David and refused to step down, so God took him and his sons out of the way.

Today, there are many saved Chrisitans who are continually disobedient and God also takes them home to heaven early too.

Please do not confuse promises made to the Bride with those made to OT Saints. OSAS is for the Bride only.

[Kliska]

Also, the grave had two separate sides; same place but with a split in destination.

Are you saying that King Saul lost his salvation? The Bible says you can't, its secure in Jesus "no one can pluck them out of my hand." However, you can lose "joy" when you sin. King David, after he sinned, cried out and said "restore unto me the Joy of my salvation".

Personally, I think King Saul was saved, because why would God anoint an unsaved king to rule over Israel? I believe Saul became disobedient and lost his joy and had to step down because he was disobedient to God. King Saul became jealous of David and refused to step down, so God took him and his sons out of the way.

Today, there are many saved Chrisitans who are continually disobedient and God also takes them home to heaven early too.

I didn't say anything about anyone's salvation; The grave did indeed have two separate sides, one for those who faithed, one for those who did not. I'm not talking about a person, but a place. Short answer; we are not told where Saul wound up, and I trust God completely as to Saul's final destination.

[RaptureReady_7]

I think we are missing something here, we cant make God right lets understand why He is right.
God is never wrong
this post is trying to see exactly what went wrong with Saul. David is the good guy here.... but whats wrong with Saul
God is treating Saul fairly just how would you explain that.....
sending evil spirits to him? no where in the bible has this ever been done
I believe we missing alot of things cause we say we know and understand

Well, I consider God right, cause He is God. But it is the study of what God's word says that show us that our faith is not blind, but based on the only way we can know God as we do.

[Geri7]

I didn't say anything about anyone's salvation; The grave did indeed have two separate sides, one for those who faithed, one for those who did not. I'm not talking about a person, but a place. Short answer; we are not told where Saul wound up, and I trust God completely as to Saul's final destination.

What are your thoughts on this memorial speech?

II Samuel 1:17-27 This is the memorial speech that David gave for Saul and Jonathan

verse 23 "Saul and Jonathan were lovely and pleasant in their lives, and in their death they were not divided . . ."


Since Jonathan was a Godly man and best friend to David, I read this memorial tribute that both their souls (in death) were not divided but on the paradise together. Or is there another meaning "in their death they were not divided?"

[JPE]

If you look up 1 Samuel 31 you will see that Saul and Jonathan died in the same battle on the same day. I would definitely say it is true then that in their death they were not divided.

[Kliska]

Also, when Jesus said, "you will be with me in paradise," the meaning was clear. The grave used to be one "place" split in two, hence it isn't clear where Saul wound up even if we have David saying what he did. Again, it doesn't seem to be a big question to me, since God can be trusted for Saul's, and everyone else's, final resting place.