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Thread: Why is everyone so mean to poor Obama?

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    Whether i believe them right or not an issue. They are legal.
    It is your duty as an American to make sure your government doesn't run afoul. You feign apathy but that's because you support the huge taxes that Congress levies. Taxes that take from the rich and give to the poor simply because the poor feel entitled is not right and you know it. Just because a government is allowed to do something doesn't mean it's right.

    Why do I need to give to the poor? Why is it okay for some to take from me just because they have less?

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    Whether i believe them right or not an issue. They are legal.
    Abortion is also legal. At one time, slavery was legal. In some states, marriage between two people of the same sex is legal. Are followers of Jesus Christ just to kick back, relax and not try to change things which are wrong because they are 'legal'?

    To go back to a much earlier post of mine, charity was the province of churches and religious organizations at one time. By removing this from the province of these organizations, our government has weakened our churches and robbed everyone of monies that could have been used to help out those in need. Instead as I noted earlier, we have things such as a $15 million dollar bridge to nowhere in Alaska and Lord knows how many people lining their pockets with our hard earned money! I submit to you government waste is harming people, keeping them from receiving real, tangible help, and keeping them dependant on the government for a few crumbs.

    Going back to the tyrant discussion, our forefathers wrote a document called the Declaration of Independence. In that document, they refer to King George as a tyrant. He did not illegally seize power from anyone, the kingship was his by birthright. It is the way the colonies were being treated under his rule that caused our forefathers to declare independence from British rule.

    Merriam Webster gives the following definitions for the word tyrant:

    an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution

    a ruler who exercises absolute power oppressively or brutally

    a usurper of sovereignty

    one resembling an oppressive ruler in the harsh use of authority or power

    I and probably a few others, find that Barack Obama is doing as much as possible to ignore the constitution and that he is very harsh where it involves Israel, where it involves his authority vs the checks and balances inherent in the constitution and who is oppressive to us, caring far more about his own personal agenda than about the real needs of the people, all the people, of the United States of America.




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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    I agree that federal government should not provide for our every need. Of course they shouldnt. But they should help those who need help to provide for the basic necessities of life. Food, shelter, clothing, clean water.
    I think by reading much of what you have written that you are a well intentioned individual with a good heart. You have responded to almost all the posts on the board without anger, that in and of itself says much about you. I do think however that you may be listening to a slant on Christianity that has been infected with a social Gospel, it has altered your view and you don't seem to really be processing what is being written in this thread. Please take some time to think about what some of us are trying to say, we are all in favor of helping those in need. We are all in favor of charity. But when the government steps in to provide it assumes a role never intended by the founders and one that is not taught in scripture. Charity is the job of the Church and individuals, not the government. Step by step we are falling into a Godless socialism or worse. One needs only to look at the message by the Occupy movement to realize that we are creating a generation of takers. They believe they are entitled to free food, lodging, health care, a college education, whatever they need with no personal responsibility, and worse the only one they have to thank for what they have is the government, not God. He is left out of the equation. Children in this country go to government sponsored day care where the Gospel is forbidden, to public schools where they are not allowed to pray and never learn the name of Jesus, to a college that teaches a philosophy that is from the very pit and when they need help where do they turn? The message they have received is that it is the government's job to provide for them, government has become their god and sadly that same government has refused to criticize the movement. Many of the so-called progressive have gone so far as to openly support it. You say you believe shelter, food and clean water should be provided to anyone that needs it and that sounds noble, but it has not stopped there. The truth is, the only thing that really matters in this world is where you will be in the World to come. Everything we are doing now should be done with that in mind. In His wisdom, God allows suffering so that He can be glorified through the love of His people. How many homeless were fed, housed and heard the Gospel through Rescue Missions? How many soup kitchens and food pantries across this country have led people to Christ as they met their physical needs? When the government provides, these opportunities are diminished and many who would turn to the Church for assistance now turn to their Big Brother will never understand their need for the Saviour until it is too late. I don't mind paying for others who have needs, I simply want my money channeled into areas where it will do the most good. That will never be accomplished through a Godless system.

  4. #204
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    Folks -- It is my humble opinion, after more than 200 posts, that this "defender of socialism" is indeed a troll. After a barrage of challenges, he/she doesn't elaborate on a big picture of his "Christian" beliefs and why he's so committed - with Scriptural support. Instead, he dodges and deflects each individual barb we lob with fuzzy arguments that either don't address Scripture at all, or gloss over the the Word's true meaning in favor of some diluted PC interpretation, e.g., substituting "not judging others' salvation" for "not judging other Christians at all." (He knows just enough about the Bible to be a nuisance, but not enough to champion the faith.)

    I believe he has enjoyed his antagonism of us and pats himself on the back for diverting us from our true course - to spread the Good News in these end times.

    I can't say "I'm done" with this guy/gal, and I will pray for him/her, but won't devote any more cerebral energy to trying to convince him/her of what the Lord has clearly indicated to those of us with eyes to see and ears to hear.
    Carla

    And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. 9 The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.

  5. #205
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    Your "friend"s story keeps changing every time you reply. I am inclined to agree with the troll assessment. I noticed he wasn't disabled anymore after I mentioned my husband.

    Your attitude seems to be "He can't get the job (he wants) so we taxpayers need to keep subsidizing his farming efforts." I don't agree.

    By your own admission, he owns an tractor, a home, and a large parcel of land. He has more "stuff" than I do. Why hasn't he sold it? Why should I be required to ante up to "support" him? Why hasn't he looked for a different type of job?

    However, I'm done with this, so don't bother to reply.

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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acts5:41 View Post
    Your "friend"s story keeps changing every time you reply. I am inclined to agree with the troll assessment. I noticed he wasn't disabled anymore after I mentioned my husband.

    Your attitude seems to be "He can't get the job (he wants) so we taxpayers need to keep subsidizing his farming efforts." I don't agree.

    By your own admission, he owns an tractor, a home, and a large parcel of land. He has more "stuff" than I do. Why hasn't he sold it? Why should I be required to ante up to "support" him? Why hasn't he looked for a different type of job?

    However, I'm done with this, so don't bother to reply.
    Careful now, you are sounding like a meanie mod.

    Not sure if he's lost or not; might not even be a troll; there are many Christians with liberal positions, though their ranks are getting thinner.



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  7. #207
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    Carla, I wondered, too, if it was a stir-the-pot effort because of the posting silence up until now, but today it was no holds barred on verbalizing, yet not budging.
    Rom. 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
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    Folks -- It is my humble opinion, after more than 200 posts, that this "defender of socialism" is indeed a troll. (He knows just enough about the Bible to be a nuisance, but not enough to champion the faith.)

    I believe he has enjoyed his antagonism of us and pats himself on the back for diverting us from our true course - to spread the Good News in these end times.
    I came to the same conclusion several pages ago.

    Sidestepping questions, offering liberal talking points instead of facts, and repeating the trite "do not judge" are hallmarks of such seminar posters. It's a game to them.

    Thank you, Carla, for stepping up to the plate and saying what needed to be said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EarsToHear View Post
    Carla, I wondered, too, if it was a stir-the-pot effort because of the posting silence up until now, but today it was no holds barred on verbalizing, yet not budging.
    EarsToHear, my friend, you have an uncanny ability for sizing up humans -- go with your gut. I'm signing off for tonight. Sleep well and maybe we'll be awakened by the sound of the shofar...
    Carla

    And when he comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment. 9 The world’s sin is that it refuses to believe in me.

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    It has been evident from early on there was no budging going on. It is sometimes instructive for members and lurkers to see debate on the topic. The emergent church is filled with this type of mindset, so it may help those who encounter these same arguments.

    Load up on facts y'all we posted plenty here.
    There is One King, and He is not this guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    A reply like this is (in my opinion) "hateful". You are comparing the President of the United States to the likes of Adolf Hitler and his fascist regime. What examples of fascism or marxism have you to back up such claims?
    The first few years of Hitler were good times, lots of nationalism and camaraderie, Obama can't even pull that one off, it was Hitler's last years when things got ugly; we don't want to risk any of that with an Obama 2.0; it's time to vote him out before it gets as bad as the Hitler days. Many, including the media, never contended with others who claimed Bush was a Hitler or even the Antichrist.



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    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    I dont believe there is any conflict in my political views and my christian belief.
    I find this answer to be incredibly obtuse at best or intellectually dishonest at worst.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    I find this to be a rude reply.
    I thought I was talking to an adult who could handle the truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    I pray you are never down on your luck, out of work with a wife and children to support.
    That's still not a justification for a confiscatory system of redistribution of wealth.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenguin View Post
    I have a friend who never does any research and is indifferent to the fact that he doesn't watch the news or even read any news online. He tells me that he'll be voting for Obama.
    Tell your friend to stay home as he shouldn't be allowed to cast a liberal sycophant zombie vote. Mindless myrmidons have no place in a voting booth.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    I think the is a moral responsibility to take care of those who need help.
    So by extension you're postulating that it's OK to steal from someone at the point of a gun to give to another? That's it you know. Stealing. No different than a robber sticking a gun in your face and taking your money. Oh no! It's the government you say! Well, try not paying your taxes for a while. Know what happens? The government comes and at the point of a gun (threat of force or arrest) they take your stuff!

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    My eyes are wide open. I used the word hate and was told that word is inciteful and only used to garner a negative or defensive response. Yet in replies I have seen fascism, marxism and now tyranny used to describe a man that was democratically elected to office. What are those words if not inciteful?

    Someone else said they are not ashamed in that they will compare him to Hitler, a man who killed millions of Jews.

    My eyes are wide open.
    Your eyes are open but your prescription is wrong. You have severe myopia.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    Your opinion of his job performance is just that, an opinion.
    Facts are what inform opinions. You seem to be severely lacking in factual support for your opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    I know these passages. I still prefer to see the good in people. And these scriptures do not make a legitmate argument against social welfare programs.
    Scriptures illustrate the problem and government redistribution is not the solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    Our system of government prevents the possibility of tyranny. Fascism would be impossible in the melting pot that the united states is. Marxist would be the most reasonable and again because of checks and balances in our system you would need a congress willing to pass marxist bill, a president willing to sign it into law, and a Supreme Court that would uphold its constitutionality. So Marxist, extremely unlikely.
    Don't kid yourself. We are one ignorant generation away from tyranny. Reference: Penguin's friend.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    I disagree that social welfare is redistribution of wealth.
    The preponderance of your posts when coupled with this one make me wonder what your agenda is - really - honestly - seriously. Are we to believe you are that obtuse? I don't think so. I'm beginning to favor intellectual dishonesty for the sake of argument because it's getting harder and harder to take you seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    I know what the 3 are. There are more aspects to each you choose to leave out. For example a main characteristic of fascism is that the people are united based on a similarity or belief behind a dictator.
    How did Hitler rise to power again? (Rhetorical - look it up.)

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    Obamacare is far from a marxist program.
    Do you realize your opaque replies are weighing down the conversation or are you honestly not seeing the implications and explications being presented for your edification?

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    .... i support the endowment for the arts. I enjoy art what can i say.
    So here's another example whereupon you think it's perfectly OK that a lousy artist who can't sell his wares on the open market should be supported by the people?

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    No, im saying our system has a checks and balances that protect it from those forms of government.
    One generation. Maybe less if at the rate we're going here is any example.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    My argument is that the system is still needed and there are many who truly need the help.
    Our argument is the government is not the best administrator of the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    Are they really a tyrant if voted into office democratically?
    Again, reference Hitler - just as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    This may be true as we like the government of rome are both democratic republics.
    No we're a constitutional republic. Democracies are just a fancy form of mob rule.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    I would agree that the founding fathers did not envision what we are today when writing the constitution. I believe this is why they created a living document that is capable of changing to the needs of the people.
    Al Gore's talking point? Now I'm really staring to convince myself that we're not to be taking you seriously. The Constitution is not some child's Play-Doh subject to remodeling for the latest cause celebre' or cause de-jure.

    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    Ill say we can agree to disagree about the national endowment for the arts. It is such a small drop in the bucket it is hardly worth mentioning.
    Fine, so you can contribute my drop then. Would that be OK?

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  13. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    I disagree that social welfare is redistribution of wealth. Any argument that can correlate the two would be a huge stretch in my opinion.
    Social Welfare - government taking from the haves and redistributing to the have nots (those in need)

    Redistribution of Wealth - government taking from the haves and redistributing to the have nots (those who want)

    One in the same...It is nothing more than a 'word' game, which the liberals have brilliantly mastered...

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    Yay Steve!


    Take one and pass it on!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve53 View Post
    I find this answer to be incredibly obtuse at best or intellectually dishonest at worst.




    The preponderance of your posts when coupled with this one make me wonder what your agenda is - really - honestly - seriously. Are we to believe you are that obtuse? I don't think so. I'm beginning to favor intellectual dishonesty for the sake of argument because it's getting harder and harder to take you seriously.



    How did Hitler rise to power again? (Rhetorical - look it up.)





    So here's another example whereupon you think it's perfectly OK that a lousy artist who can't sell his wares on the open market should be supported by the people?


    One generation. Maybe less if at the rate we're going here is any example.



    Our argument is the government is not the best administrator of the system.



    Again, reference Hitler - just as an example.


    Owebama has done quite a work in the Middle East playing his little Hitler games, we don't need that over here, we already have a few mysterious deaths related to Obama and even the Clintons

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/ausc...election-year/
    ‘Auschwitz-Like Conditions’: U.S. General Accused of Massive Afghan Cover-Up to Protect Obama During Election Year



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJRJR View Post
    And I still maintain it is not for believers to discern the heart of other men.


    EJRJR, you have interchanged the words 'judge' and 'discern' many times throughout your posts. I have read all posts thus far, and I have yet to see anyone 'judge' Obama's 'heart' as to whether he is saved...or not. What I have observed is many responses stating 'you shall know them by their fruits'. That is NOT judging one's heart, that is called discernment between good/evil, right/wrong (a person's character, actions, words).

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    Well I couldn't sleep so I read through this thread and I believe like Carla that EJRJR is a troll. This thread did give me a lot of good ideas on how to answer someone who needs to know more about Obama. There is a lot of good reasoning here to but I over my 67 yrs had already come to believe big government is a huge mistake in fact I have believed that longer than I have been able to vote that was back in 1968 when I first pulled a lever. I had excellent parents who taught me the right way to live and how working for your living was a way of life for everyone. They also encouraged me and my siblings to get a good education and paid for our college years no government help or loans for us. My father was an engineer who first went to school to be a lawyer working his way through college. He then decided he didn't like being a lawyer so he worked was raising two kids with a wife and went to school to be a mechanical engineer once again no government help. He was able to save up and pay for his first home for cash no government help with that either and always paid cash for his homes after that and he had a total of 5 homes. My father once when he was over 50 lost his job he was a vice president due to the company got sold and all the top brass were let go. He ended up starting his on consulting firm and did that till he retired. Times were pretty bad when that happened there had been a recession but he had no unemployment coming in I am not sure there was anything like that then for executives but he managed to earn a living and still put his last child through college. They retired and lived fairly well and would not have had they been dependent only on governments social security which he paid into all those years. I also managed to marry a man who had our ideals he also went to school and his parents paid his way and he worked for extra money and he graduated and worked hard and brought up 4 children with me no government loans ever. I had 3 sons who went into the military service one was in 4 yrs one 10yrs and one 23yrs. All have degrees and were officers they were all in desert storm and of course the one who just got out was in several other wars too. I don't want to pay for those who won't work but just work the system it is not my duty to nor should it be my obligation. I do give to people who I know are having bad times but only those I know are trying their best and just can't quite make it through the month not those that are sitting on their buttocks waiting for something to tap them on their shoulders. I haven't always had it easy through life but I managed without the governments help. I went through divorce and having to work again after being an at home mom for 22 yrs so I know it can be scary but I didn't even think for a minute this was anyone's problem but mine and that I would manage to find a job and support myself I took no alimony. I didn't mean for this to be a book but I am furious with this guy who thinks we should be helping pay for another mans misfortune someone we don't even know because it is legal for the government to force us to. That is one good reason to change our congress and president for people who will do what is the right thing to do and cut this government in half as soon as possible. All those crazy hippie like people who were from the 60's as I was are now trying to run our government into the ground they were wrong doing drugs and free living back then and are still wrong I want the other half of my age group the sensible ones to get into power and stop the bankrupting of our great country so our children and grandchildren will have decent futures.

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    Perhaps this thread qualifies for sticky status?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePenguin View Post
    It is your duty as an American to make sure your government doesn't run afoul. You feign apathy but that's because you support the huge taxes that Congress levies. Taxes that take from the rich and give to the poor simply because the poor feel entitled is not right and you know it. Just because a government is allowed to do something doesn't mean it's right.

    Why do I need to give to the poor? Why is it okay for some to take from me just because they have less?
    My duty as an american is to be active in the political process. I am. I vote from the presidentail election cycle nationally to the local ballot question locally i vote in every one. I serve. I serve on the board of assessors, the recreation committee, the board of library trustees and previously on the finance committee.

    There is no apathy in recognizing a need for a social system. Apathy is in saying I shouldnt have to be part of the solution as you previously stated numerous times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mom2ten View Post
    Ejrjr, I understand some people are having a hard time, but not all. Sometimes people need to downsize according to their income. If you can't afford the big house mortgage and all the rest of the stuff, either don't get it or go to school so you can get a job that will let you afford it. No one has a 'right' to all of the nice things in life, you work for them.
    You really need to do some research on Obama and what he has said, especially the church he went to for what, 20 years? It will be an eye opener.
    This is unrealistic to the situation presented. My friend has multiple college degrees including a masters. The problem isnt that he was living outside his means, but that he no longer has a job. S i guess now he is outside his means, but it is not as easy as just saying "i will sell my house" he may be upside down on it with the current housing market....i dont know i havent asked. Houses dont sell nearly as fat as they once did even if he wanted to sell it. What he does have isnt an issue to the problem of not being employed.

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