Luke 22:42

[IlovemyJesus]

I'm reading the Thru the Bible Commentary Series by J. Vernon McGee. I am studying Hebrews, however while discussing chapter 5 of Hebrews verse 7 to be exact, Mr. McGee goes into a explanation about when and how many times Jesus wept. Luke 22:42, McGee claims Jesus wept; "Let this cup pass from me". Then he proceeds to claim that the "cup" Jesus was referring to was about His death, which I agree. However, Mr. McGee is claiming that Jesus did not want to die in the Garden of Gethsemane. Mr. McGee believes that Satan attempted to slay the Lord Jesus in the Garden. I'm not quite sure I agree, but wanted to see if anyone has heard this before, or have thoughts? I always thought Jesus was simply talking about His death upon the Cross and taking on the sins of the world. Any clarification is greatly appreciated.

[Raphael]

Jesus made seven statements from the cross which I believe were intended to be made from there. Each dreadful detail of His crucifixion had meaning. Personally, I don't think Jesus was afraid Satan would pre-empt the appointed time and manner that He would "give up the ghost".

However, I have what may be a minority opinion, in a way, about "this cup". I think He was referring to the entire process beginning with the failed prayer vigil in Gethsemane to His death on the cross. He sweat great drops of blood (actually a potential literal phenomenon that can occur under extreme stress) and had to be comforted by an angel in Gethsemane. Here's where my opinion is probably different from most. I personally believe He was just as worried - and, IMO, more worried - about the potential failure of His earthly body/ human component to complete the intended mission as He was the specific torments of the cross. He knew this mission had to be a success or no one could be saved. Some may say that He knew how it would turn out - but - what if, as part of taking on the same challenges mankind faces, He CHOSE NOT TO KNOW whether His mission would succeed? That would mean his torment in Gethsemane was actually motivated by His love for us, as much or more than by His concerns about the physical tortures that awaited. This line of thinking would seem to be contradicted by His plain statements about raising up (Himself) in three days. But maybe He set aside the comfort of certainty for a moment - just a thought.

[james46888]

I'm reading the Thru the Bible Commentary Series by J. Vernon McGee. I am studying Hebrews, however while discussing chapter 5 of Hebrews verse 7 to be exact, Mr. McGee goes into a explanation about when and how many times Jesus wept. Luke 22:42, McGee claims Jesus wept; "Let this cup pass from me". Then he proceeds to claim that the "cup" Jesus was referring to was about His death, which I agree. However, Mr. McGee is claiming that Jesus did not want to die in the Garden of Gethsemane. Mr. McGee believes that Satan attempted to slay the Lord Jesus in the Garden. I'm not quite sure I agree, but wanted to see if anyone has heard this before, or have thoughts? I always thought Jesus was simply talking about His death upon the Cross and taking on the sins of the world. Any clarification is greatly appreciated.

I haven't heard that idea before but I can't see that McGee's theory can be substained Biblically. The "cup" in the OT refers to God's wrath and this wrath was poured upon Jesus at the cross when the sins of the world were placed upon Him.

[Jan51]

I have McGee's books too and looked this up. His concern is that if Jesus was praying that He might not have to actually go to the cross, then it seemed His prayer was not answered; he says, if Jesus prayed not to die on the cross, then His prayer was not heard. Jesus knew why He had come to earth, and He knew all the prophecies, that this must take place. So he offered this theory as to what Jesus may have been asking instead. I think it's a stretch too; I'm a McGee fan, but I don't agree with him on everything.

"If You are willing": He abhorred the thought of separation from the Father, and asked if there was any way to avoid it and still fulfill God's will. "Yet not My will but Yours be done": Jesus recognized that the will of the Father was greater than His, and He willingly accepted it.

Just because He did go to the cross doesn't mean this prayer wasn't heard or answered. It was answered just as He asked; God's will was done and He submitted to it.

"Cup" does not always refer to the cup of wrath, although the Bible frequently mentions the cup of God's wrath, in connection with the tribulation. But it is also used to speak of one's lot or fate. I don't think that God's wrath was poured out at the cross; the day of wrath is yet to come, Rev. 6:17.

[james46888]

"Cup" does not always refer to the cup of wrath, although the Bible frequently mentions the cup of God's wrath, in connection with the tribulation. But it is also used to speak of one's lot or fate. I don't think that God's wrath was poured out at the cross; the day of wrath is yet to come, Rev. 6:17.

It's true that "cup" does not always refer to wrath. I probably should have been more precise. I think 3 times in the psalms it's used in positive sense vs 2 times in a negative - in the OT prophets all "cup" references are, as far as I know, negative. Clearly in Jesus's case it is negative in the sense He's expecting suffering, though the suffeing brings us redemption. As to Rev 6:17, yes wrath is future in that it'll be poured out during the trib. However, in Romans 1:18 wrath is seen presently in God's anger against sin and certainly the wrath of hell is future and this is what we are saved from according to John 3:36. Unbelievers, according to the same verse, still have the wrath of God abiding on them though and will do so eternally and clearly Jesus's death removed that wrath from believers. So although you won't find an NT verse saying in those exact words that Jesus suffered God's wrath on the cross, obviously since God is angry at sin and Jesus took our sins upon Himself He clearly must've experienced that anger and wrath on the cross.

[Wally]

IMHO;

Cup = lot in life. Our appointment ordained by God.

Our cup overfloweth. This is not wrath, this is the appointed work for us to do in life.

Sometimes it is a bitter cup, sometimes sweet.


Christ shared our humanity so much, He understood the suffering of crucifixion. He had chances to witness it Himself.

He paused not in selfishness, but in real fear/abhorance of the process and asked: Is there another way?

Remember at this time, Jesus had set aside heaven to be our Savior. He also spoke many things for our understanding.

Here we see Him as our Brother Redeemer, preparing to pay our price. Fully human.


And being without sin, able to not only say it, but abide in the Father's will. Not His but Thine be done.

[Raphael]

Wally has made an important point: "He spoke many things for our understanding". He knew what was going on - He just wanted to make sure we understood as well. "If it were possible, let this cup pass from me"...He had to know there was no other plan for our salvation - and wanted us to know it as well.

[Clouds]

This is what I believe, although I could be partly wrong:

When Jesus took our sin upon Himself (as our Substitute), He had to pay the full price (penalty) to redeem us.
God's Holiness required full payment.
Physical death, along with any suffering here on earth, does not fully pay the required penalty for sin. The RCC disagrees with this, but they have no real biblical basis for such belief.
Sinners not covered at death by Christ's blood (OT on credit and NT already payed for by Jesus) will be forsaken by God and they will have to suffer eternal agony in the Lake of Fire for their sin.

Jesus had to somehow pay the full eternal penalty for sin, at the hand of God the Father, during His last three hours on the cruel cross. This was the "cup of wrath" that all sinners who die without Christ must pay. The awareness of what this cup would involve is what Jesus agonized over at Gethsemane. I suspect satan and all his demons were making this awareness more intense to Jesus.

Some say that Jesus' infinite dignity is what made the infinite penalty payment possible in those three hours before Jesus gave up His own spirit to the Father. That could be part of the explanation, but I don't think our human minds are capable of grasping what really happened during those three hours of darkness. I believe that much of heaven will involve learning more and more just how much He suffered for us. We can only love Him more and more as we see, by His infinite sacrifice, just how much He loves us.

[Raphael]

I agree Clouds. I believe Satan was in Gethsemane in person just as during the 40-day temptation in the wilderness. The mental and spiritual agony and taunts about a separation between Father and Son that had never happened in all eternity must be an integral part of "this cup".

We'll know more details some day.

[IlovemyJesus]

Thank you all for your comments. I love McGee as well, but have found times that I did not stand in agreement. I believe Satan was in the Garden as well, but I do not think Jesus was praying that His death would not happen in the Garden. Jesus knew His death would be on the Cross. So this would be one of the times I would have to say I disagree with Brother McGee.

[Jesuschangesall]

Jesus is the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world....In Eternity,where God lives,the crucifixion had already taken place.....then id our time space dimension,2000 years ago Jesus went at that cross,for me and you and can I add for The Father,in the sense that His obedience has always being total ( the opposite of Adam's)and wholeheartedly ...not only obedience but agape love,to Him,to you and me....

my understanding is that Jesus was showing us that there was NO other way,but the way of the cross to purchase forgiveness and provide atonement for a lost humanity.....He knows,He knew that we are all way too religious and always in our fallen nature trying to find "other"ways,but His way....after all He is THE WAY.....Truth and Life....

And submitting Himself to the Father will Jesus had His prayer (thrice representing The Triune God,in my opinion ) answered and satisfied because it was God's will that He would go to the cross,I repeat for us....

No fault in God ever..just perfection,even though it is hard for us to grasp His greatness,.....just my view.
I say,Thank You Jesus you did go at that cross,otherwise hell would have been my only one way destination for eternity,which means for ever!
Glory and Honor and Praise to our Great God!

[Genesis22]

I think Jesus was praying that if there was any other way to save us, that He wouldn't be killed. When He said "not my will, but Yours be done", I think that meant that if it was the only way, He wanted to go through with it and not be rescued from being killed.