Fianancial collapse of America - pre or post Rapture?

[Buzzardhut]

IMO... I don't think the financial collapse will be business as usual. Not only will America have a financial collapse, it will be worldwide!! Now the worldwide financial collapse does not seem like business as usual. So Im more incline to beleive it will be post rapture.

After the AC subdues worldwide crisis people will then say "Peace & Safety" and then the last 3 1/2 yrs of the trib begins.

[Tall Timbers]

Some of us have collapsed financially, Barb. And as for starvation, I would be if not for food stamps, but they run out before the end of the month, and that's eating a lot of beans and pea soup.

Maybe I'll get a job soon to get me through whatever part of the pre-trib this country has to suffer before rapture.

Some of us are just irked by the price of flour, sugar, milk, gasoline, etc.

Some of us are fully experiencing the recession... belt tightening, hard time meeting the basic necessities, underemployed and/or periodically unemployed.

Others of us are experiencing financial Depression... homeless, hungry unless assisted, desperate to gain a footing and restart.

Very few of us understand and apply prudent financial management. It's not taught in our schools. Last year our High School offered a class in financial management but they cancelled it when not enough students signed up for the class. I asked for a copy of what the class was going to cover, and home schooled my 4 kids on what I thought were the important aspects of financial management. I've been trying to teach them all along, as my mother taught me. Most of us are ill-equipped to resolve our financial woes because we lack the knowledge and discipline required in that arena of life. On the flip side, via media of all kinds, we're taught to spend more than we have, take advantage of easy credit, and live the "Good Life". We're bombarded with that message almost constantly. We're taught to want stuff we don't need, and we're often convinced that all kinds of things are necessities.

Some of our brothers and sisters are probably already experiencing the financial crisis in full. When the collapse occurs... it'll just get worse, worse for everyone, way worse. Worse beyond our ability to comprehend because we've had it so good for so long. I live one day at a time knowing that tomorrow I might not be able to feed my kids... or the day after that. Just a couple of weeks ago I spent a couple of days with an older sister who met up with me in Washington state. We talked about the economy and coming difficulties. We were eating at an Olive Garden. I told her: "Here we are with plenty, easily accessible, abundant. All the bread sticks and salad we want with our meal. Whatever they put on our table they'll throw out when we don't eat it... and if/when financial collapse occurs, we'll go from all this easy abundance to possibly not having food to purchase at any price. We'll go from the easy life we grew up with to desperation and starvation. Everything we've all done to manage our senior years: IRA's, 401K's, bank accounts, etc., will be worthless or close to worthless. We'll have nothing more than we own outright, and if we own our houses the government can soon take those from us when we can't pay the property taxes. The government is now situated to become the sole owner of property, and we are situated to become serfs with nothing but what big brother is kind enough to offer us." Throughout history difficult times were preceded by signs that could be seen by those willing to recognize them... just like today.

[Gilgal]

All debts will be forgiven

AC will forgive financial debt....and the masses will rejoice and worship him
Jesus forgives spiritual debt....and the unbelieving masses rage and reject Him

oh the folly of human wisdom

[Buzzardhut]

AC will forgive financial debt....and the masses will rejoice and worship him
Jesus forgives spiritual debt....and the unbelieving masses rage and reject Him

oh the folly of human wisdom

[Grace]

Exactly what constitutes a financial collapse? We have had the Great Depression & I believe we will have another before the rapture. So, I guess that makes me a vote for pre-rapture financial collapse.

[Tall Timbers]

Exactly what constitutes a financial collapse? We have had the Great Depression & I believe we will have another before the rapture. So, I guess that makes me a vote for pre-rapture financial collapse.

The German currency post WWII is one example. Several South American nations have experienced financial collapse. When you build up great debt and the debtors come calling, and you don't have anything to pay them back with...

In the U.S. we've been essentially experiencing a gradual collapse of the dollar. The weakening was very gradual for a very long time but in recent years we've seen rather large steps of weakening of our currency on account of the QE money printing and spending. The government keeps hinting that they're going to do more of that QE stuff. At some point in the near future they'll be forced to print ever larger sums of money with no backing (to pay our creditors and keep government operating) until the dollar has little or no value. At that point you're in the trough of financial collapse. Your savings are worthless, your pensions/promises of pensions are gone, you're left with nothing and no hope. Apply this world-wide and you've got the best opportunity satan will ever have to put his man on the thrown of world leadership. The implications of financial collapse would take many pages to describe, but it would be quite horrific for everyone, or almost everyone.

[Tesseract]

Exactly what constitutes a financial collapse? We have had the Great Depression & I believe we will have another before the rapture. So, I guess that makes me a vote for pre-rapture financial collapse.

We also didn't have the social programs, entitlements, credit card debt, mortgage debt, student loan debt, $16 trillion in national debt, $120 trillion in unfunded liabilities, AND all of the economies of the world were not tied in together like they are now. As someone mentioned, Greece and Portugal did go bankrupt, but they were also bailed out to prevent a collapse. If they go, Spain and Italy go, then England, France and Germany, then the entire Euro Zone, then China, Japan and us. That's why they are so desperate to stop the domino effect.

[Musician in His house]

Repaint for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!


More seriously, I beleive America will not escape the war.
Economy won't matter when the country is abandoned.

A bon mot that is worthy of Raphael himself!

I'm leaning towards (and frankly hoping for) the economic collapse coming after, and perhaps as a result of, the Rapture. On one hand, that sounds kind of selfish, I guess, but on the other hand, it would make sense for the Rapture to be the final straw that broke the camel's back concerning the economy.

[Scotty066]

Exactly what constitutes a financial collapse? We have had the Great Depression & I believe we will have another before the rapture. So, I guess that makes me a vote for pre-rapture financial collapse.

I agree wholeheartedly. Also I agree the TallTimbers comments as well.

IMO there are many people around the world who are not experiencing "business as usual" As stated in Greece, where 40% or more of the businesses have closed, the economy has been devestated, many people starving, giving up there kids, losing everything they have. Is that normal?? There are many other examples as well. We as Americans tend to be in a bubble not realizing the devestating circumstances people around the world are truly in and not "business as usual" We also tend to think of the "economic collapse" as singular event. If such an event were to happen before the rapture IMO it will be actually happen over a several month period. Things will sprial down word. Events would pick speed as the days and month went on, each bit of bad news piling on one after another... Moreover if the rapture happens before we experience a "collapse" then IMO economic devestation will be an overnight event.

The bottom line is, IMHO we, as Americans,could experience a economic collapse before the rapture or at least partly before the rapture.

[$teve]

Have a look at this short snip from a program that aired in February 2009 entitled Inside the Meltdown.

Any question about the interconnections of world economies and the possibility of a sudden meltdown of the entire global economy are fully answered here in this doco - as it were with what happened in 2008 when credit markets froze around the world virtually crippling the banking systems and economies around the globe.

The full-length video which can be found on youtube investigates all the events that led up to and followed GFC 2008 (which is now GFC 2008 - 2012). What is pointed out elsewhere on the full-length video was the amazement and shock at how other countries around the world were also starting to experience major financial and economic shocks, within just a matter of a few days, including China's economy having come to a complete standstill. The entire drama was apparently very surreal to many observers. And it goes to demonstrate, if it happened before it can certainly happen again.

On a side note I was just reading a fascinating analysis of the centrally-planned global stimulus over the past five years where we have seen some 7 trillion dollars pumped into the financial system. What is now becoming increasingly clear and worrisome is just how much the ever diminishing returns are resulting from each of the stimulus programs on boosting the world's economies. They are becoming less and less effective at a disturbing pace. It's been speculated that Bernanke and Draghi are beginning to realize this and that is why they are being bigger on promises than delivery, probably with intention to test the viability of the economies involved by way of merely boosting confidence. They are realizing their programs offer no more than artificial support that once it is wound down, the economies sink again (the data shows this too).

The article citing the analysis suggested that once it is clear the money pumping results in global economic growth at or below zero, it will be lights out.


Short Snip Appetizer





Full-Length Documentary





Oh and to answer the OP, I think any economic deterioration will continue pre-rapture, but the full and irreversible world-wide financial and economic collapse could likely be either immediately pre or post-rapture.

[Scotty066]

Have a look at this short snip from a program that aired in February 2009 entitled Inside the Meltdown.

Any question about the interconnections of world economies and the possibility of a sudden meltdown of the entire global economy are fully answered here in this doco - as it were with what happened in 2008 when credit markets froze around the world virtually crippling the banking systems and economies around the globe.

The full-length video which can be found on youtube investigates all the events that led up to and followed GFC 2008 (which is now GFC 2008 - 2012). What is pointed out elsewhere on the full-length video was the amazement and shock at how other countries around the world were also starting to experience major financial and economic shocks, within just a matter of a few days, including China's economy having come to a complete standstill. The entire drama was apparently very surreal to many observers. And it goes to demonstrate, if it happened before it can certainly happen again.

On a side note I was just reading a fascinating analysis of the centrally-planned global stimulus over the past five years where we have seen some 7 trillion dollars pumped into the financial system. What is now becoming increasingly clear and worrisome is just how much the ever diminishing returns are resulting from each of the stimulus programs on boosting the world's economies. They are becoming less and less effective at a disturbing pace. It's been speculated that Bernanke and Draghi are beginning to realize this and that is why they are being bigger on promises than delivery, probably with intention to test the viability of the economies involved by way of merely boosting confidence. They are realizing their programs offer no more than artificial support that once it is wound down, the economies sink again (the data shows this too).

The article citing the analysis suggested that once it is clear the money pumping results in global economic growth at or below zero, it will be lights out.


Short Snip Appetizer








Oh and to answer the OP, I think any economic deterioration will continue pre-rapture, but the full and irreversible world-wide financial and economic collapse could likely be either immediately pre or post-rapture.

The problem with this scenario as laid out by Paulson and Bernacke is, if you remember correctly,(were talkin the first $700 Billion bailout under GW Bush) they actually didnt get the money until after they said they needed it. It was like 30 days after before both the senate and house approved it and Bush signed it. By then the crisis had passed and they used the $700 billion for other things... It was a lie by Bernacke and Paulson to scare Bush and Congress to get the government to authorize massive expenditures. It turned out to be the Feds little slush fund to cover big Co's who had lost tons of money in the derivitives market(a secret market) and were on the verge of bankruptcy. Much of that money went to European Cos

[JJW81867]

I think a worldwide collapse will happen right before the rapture and that will be one of the things the AC has all the answers for which will start endearing him to the people ( non Christians ) on earth.

[Godslove]

Most of Europe is on the brink of collapse and wouldn't take much to send it over along with the rest of the world. In China they are building cities that no one lives in just to keep their economy going.

I'm convinced we will be gone before/at the collapse. Many parts of the world already have tribulation but we won't have ours until we are gone. Not to say people aren't suffering here, but compared to some places like Spain or Greece we are having a walk in the park.

[$teve]

The problem with this scenario as laid out by Paulson and Bernacke is, if you remember correctly,(were talkin the first $700 Billion bailout under GW Bush) they actually didnt get the money until after they said they needed it. It was like 30 days after before both the senate and house approved it and Bush signed it. By then the crisis had passed and they used the $700 billion for other things... It was a lie by Bernacke and Paulson to scare Bush and Congress to get the government to authorize massive expenditures. It turned out to be the Feds little slush fund to cover big Co's who had lost tons of money in the derivitives market(a secret market) and were on the verge of bankruptcy. Much of that money went to European Cos

With all due respect, this sounds a little conspiratorial. Not to say I think there is no truth to it, but where did you get your information from? You're not suggesting there was no ongoing financial crisis? Regardless of the manner in which the funds were raised and spent, historical GDP data shows massive contraction activity during late 2008 to 2009 among many countries around the world including the US, Europe and China - the economic fallout resulting from the credit crunch of which the big bazookas and stimulus were intended to open up.

[Scotty066]

With all due respect, this sounds a little conspiratorial. Not to say I think there is no truth to it, but where did you get your information from? You're not suggesting there was no ongoing financial crisis? Regardless of the manner in which the funds were raised and spent, historical GDP data shows massive contraction activity during late 2008 to 2009 among many countries around the world including the US, Europe and China - the economic fallout resulting from the credit crunch of which the big bazookas and stimulus were intended to open up.

Steve, with all due respect, I am right on target. Go check the history of that time period. I was there watching very, very closely glued to all the news and financial channels. I never said there wasnt a crisis. What Paulson and Bernacke told Bush and Congress was that to solve the crisis and to unfreeze the credit markets they needed $700 Billion Dollars by the following mon or tues or we wouldnt have an economy(it was then Sept 19). They actaully never got the money till something like two weeks later later(Oct 3), After they said they needed it and only after congress had appropriated the money. Bush couldnt just whistle up that kind of money without congressional approval and they couldnt do it that soon. By that time the credit markets had started to unfreeze and the money went to make profits for piles of banks and other institutions (many in Europe) I clearly remember the news channels questioning where the money was going and at the time is was keep a secret!! It was only later after they were sued it was released where the money went. Suprise, Suprise, to make a profit for banks accross the world.

You want to know how much was really spent and where it went? This article is a real eye opener. I hope the Mods will let it through

< mod edit - rule 14 >

I thought it was very strange where the money was going was to be keep a secret Well in one case they found Bank of America actually used the mony to buy a bank in China.

[Praying]

Everyone I know is already having a very tough time financially right now. Inflation is already hitting many families very hard. IMO, the total global meltdown will occur as a result of the Rapture of the Church, otherwise, it definitely would not be "business as usual". I do believe many of us will be brought right up to the very edge though.
I found it interesting to discover that the major stock market collapses occured in the month of October. With global economies all in trouble right now, I'll be holding my breath around that time if we're still here. Basic common sense and math skills we all learned in the 2nd grade tells us it's coming.........we can't keep living on money printed out of thin air much longer.

[$teve]

Steve, with all due respect, I am right on target. Go check the history of that time period. I was there watching very, very closely glued to all the news and financial channels. I never said there wasnt a crisis. What Paulson and Bernacke told Bush and Congress was that to solve the crisis and to unfreeze the credit markets they needed $700 Billion Dollars by the following mon or tues or we wouldnt have an economy(it was then Sept 19). They actaully never got the money till something like two weeks later later(Oct 3), After they said they needed it and only after congress had appropriated the money. Bush couldnt just whistle up that kind of money without congressional approval and they couldnt do it that soon. By that time the credit markets had started to unfreeze and the money went to make profits for piles of banks and other institutions (many in Europe) I clearly remember the news channels questioning where the money was going and at the time is was keep a secret!! It was only later after they were sued it was released where the money went. Suprise, Suprise, to make a profit for banks accross the world.

You want to know how much was really spent and where it went? This article is a real eye opener. I hope the Mods will let it through

< mod edit - rule 14 >

I thought it was very strange where the money was going was to be keep a secret Well in one case they found Bank of America actually used the mony to buy a bank in China.

Yeah okay I do understand the policy TARP took some time to get through. So the 700 billion was a part of this lengthier process as well? The article has been moderated out so didn't get to see it.

That's the other aspect I was aware too, that yes the money did go to other banks internationally. One of the banks was Australian too, forget which one, but was one of our big four. I think the funding was targeted toward banks that were struggling due to the credit crisis and higher funding costs. Certainly a number of banks were European as well. So the fed were basically bailing out the world's banking system from potential collapse?

Just to ask as well, what do you think caused the credit markets to start opening up? Surely this was due to intervention rather than just a return to business as usual. And intervention not just from the fed. The response to the crisis was ( and still is whether coordinated or not) a global response. So maybe those markets were opening up due to governments around the world implementing their own stimulus policies as it was here in Australia and China who launched some significant policy measures at the time as well, with escalating sovereign debts loads around the world over the past four years.

What do you make of the crisis itself? Do you think it had / has global repercussions? A potential global financial and economic collapse sans any interventions?

[Carrie Grace]

Everyone I know is already having a very tough time financially right now. Inflation is already hitting many families very hard. IMO, the total global meltdown will occur as a result of the Rapture of the Church, otherwise, it definitely would not be "business as usual". I do believe many of us will be brought right up to the very edge though.
I found it interesting to discover that the major stock market collapses occured in the month of October. With global economies all in trouble right now, I'll be holding my breath around that time if we're still here. Basic common sense and math skills we all learned in the 2nd grade tells us it's coming.........we can't keep living on money printed out of thin air much longer.

In just my little circle, I know four families that have walked away from their homes because they just cannot make the payments, and they are completely upside-down. I know several people that have lost their jobs, or their companies have gone belly-up. Right now, we have an extended family, as we have taken in relatives that have no home and no income coming in. The job search has been, so far, disappointing.

And this is just a teensy little glimpse of what is to come.

[mbrown1219]

I thought it would be easy to go out on temporary jobs to see what is out there in the way of employment. Not so! I have not gotten 1 referral from a temporary job agency in several years.

[Godslove]

.........we can't keep living on money printed out of thin air much longer.

If we can print money out of thin air then why are they always telling us we are bankrupt?