Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 127

Thread: The Rapture or Evolution?

  1. #41
    Christina Guest

    Default

    Amen Robert, well said!

    As Amber Lynne would say "I love you best today"...

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Thanks for the replys

    I understand all the points that are being made, one thing that i do want to point out is that the verses used as evidence for the rapture,

    1 Thessalonians 4:15–17
    John 14:2–3
    Philippians 3:20-21
    1 Corinthians 15:49–55
    2 Thessalonians 2:1-7
    Matthew 24:36-41

    can be easily applied to the second coming at the end of the tribulations, as for comments like Why would Jesus call his people up to meet him in the air when He, Himself is returning to Earth at the same time? i dont know maybe that just how he want things done, my point is that we can't know for sure. The only reason i am even having small doubts is because the foundations for this teaching of the rapture are weak, It came from John Darby and Mary Macdonald.

  3. #43
    eiger Guest

    Default What I learned

    Before I became a christian I did a lot of reading in the Bible. Most times I was unsure why I read so much. I read a lot in the OT and as I got older I read Hal Lindsey's THE LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH,I was hooked on prophsey.Read Revelation next then the Prophets and Paul's letters. Came to my own conclusion on the rapture it comes first then the Tribulation. I never heard of Darby,or any other kind of rapture.Then about fifteen years ago I had a "discussion" with some people about the fast approaching rapture.I learned that there are as many ideas about what will happen as there are people. I have never changed my mind about the rapture and see no reason to start accepting what to me are wrong headed ideas.

  4. #44
    Christina Guest

    Default

    RVIDES, I guess what is confusing me is that the teaching of the rapture didn't just start with Darby, the teachings were there all along in God's Word from the beginning of time, it may have taken man a long time to understand the scriptures, but the teaching itself has been around since the beginning of God's Word. Man can be bit slow on the up-take...lol

  5. #45
    Robert Guest

    Default

    The only problem is: Revelation 4:4 CANNOT be applied to the second coming, because they are in heaven with the Lord LONG before the Second Coming. And as I have shown, the elders with the crowns are the church. That blows the pre-wrath, mid-trib and post trib rapture theories all out of the water.

    And this was scripture LONG before Darby and MacDonald EVER came on the scene. Not to mention that the Church in the days of Paul expected the rapture to be soon, as Paul's writings indicated.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Christina View Post
    RVIDES, I guess what is confusing me is that the teaching of the rapture didn't just start with Darby, the teachings were there all along in God's Word from the beginning of time, it may have taken man a long time to understand the scriptures, but the teaching itself has been around since the beginning of God's Word. Man can be bit slow on the up-take...lol
    lol, this is the only reason why i maintain high hopes for a rapture great post!

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    29,566

    Default

    RVIDES - No, the teaching of the Rapture of the Church didn't start with Darby or Mary Whoever. Read this and then try to say that the Rapture, as distinct from the Second Coming, isn't clearly taught in the Bible.

    It's a sticky above. http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=70788

  8. #48
    cocopea9052 Guest

    Default

    ....this is an interesting thread.... Well, I'm not confused on anything mentioned, I just wish we knew when the Rapture was going to happen. But y'all already know that is my area of weakness..... So if anything is a "secret" in my opinion it would be that. And that has already been proven that no one has known or will know the date.

    But, I have asked several times things such as what did folks long ago use to discuss about the Rapture? What did Preachers use to teach? What did folks think the MOB was before technology? What did folks think prior to 1948? Etc., etc. So, I think when folks ask about the Rapture, it does seem like a fairly new teaching. Not new in the word, or even a new discovery in the word, just that it does not seem to be as old and as popular as other things mentioned in the Bible. And that makes you ask, well why not? It is true that you have to search the Bible to pull out various scripture that we "believe" is speaking on the Rapture, but it's not precisely put that way. Why is there so little mentioned about it?

    Well, quite possibly because it really takes more faith to believe it than having it spelled out for you is what I think. I think God gives that knowledge and belief and excitement as a gift. Why to some and not others? I don't know. But to put it in a most simplistic form, God said he would come for us and I have to believe that....everything else can either support it or lend to my comprehension, but relying on those two things alone would not be enough. For the Rapture to not be true, then it would have to mean that God really did not mean what he said, and I'm just not willing to call God a liar, even when I have my doubts, which I can assure you at times I do. But what are my doubts compared to the word of God? I certainly can't speak something into existence. I can't keep my word all the time and I surely cannot swear by my own self. So, if God said it, then it is to be.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    In the state of contentment
    Posts
    8,478

    Default

    Secret and only known by God is death.

    Each one of us does not know when we will take our last breathe.
    God knows when we all will die. We do not know how many days we
    have to share the Good News of salvation to our unsaved loved ones
    and neighbors. We are exhorted in Matthew to go out and preach the
    gospel to every creature before it is too late and they die before we bring
    them the good news.
    I saw on one of these threads that the Christian brings baked bread, brownies and etc.to their neighbors and share the good news with them. What a sweet idea!

    We must be busy at our Father's business.
    One of these days we will not be able to!

    Rapture and second coming. I am confused too.
    Many verses used to apply to the rapture have
    been used to explain the second coming of Christ too.
    I will leave this in God's hands.
    The great commission is simple, direct and is a command from our Lord
    for all believers to do.
    Let us get busy with the Master's calling!

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iSong6:3 View Post
    RVIDES - No, the teaching of the Rapture of the Church didn't start with Darby or Mary Whoever. Read this and then try to say that the Rapture, as distinct from the Second Coming, isn't clearly taught in the Bible.

    It's a sticky above. http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=70788
    Thank you isong that is alot of interesting information, and what i meant to say before was that Mary and Darby popularized the teaching in 1827, Before then every Bible teacher only had one view that there would only be the second coming, and because of Mary and Darby they changed their teaching that there was going to be a rapture before the tribulation.

    I know what the Bible says, i've studied the verses including everything in the link you provided me which is excellent stuff, but like i said before when you look at the context of the verses two things can be applied either its a pre-trib rapture or a post-trib rapture the bottom line is that we can't no for sure. There are alot of assumptions made by pre, mid and post trib believers when they present there arguments and one has to wonder if it even matters if it is a pre, mid or post tribulation rapture. I say lets just trust our lord and be prepared for anything that might or might not happen.

    One other thing, doesn't anyone even get remotley concerned that the most brilliant biblical teachers of the past taught that there would be only the second coming and no rapture, and because of some women's (Mary Macdonald) supposed vision, a women who had occultic ties might i add and a man (John Darby) who later began to doubt his own teachings on the rapture that he started and began teaching that the raptured church was actually the man-child in revelation 12 i mean the rapture teaching is only about 130 years old and no Ephraim the Syrian did not teach the rapture teaching, alot of bible teachers like tim laheye and grant jeffrey have falsely said that Ephraim started teaching about the rapture back in 370 A.D when in fact all that Ephraim taught was the same thing every other bible teacher was teaching at the time, that there would only be the second coming.

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    433

    Default

    Here is something else I was thinking of. Jesus

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...36&version=NIV

    36"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father.

    Clearly, to me, Jesus is speaking of the Rapture here unless I am confused, which is known to happen!

    There are many verses in the Bible that cover how long the Tribulation will last. We all know at the end of the Tribulation Jesus will come back to Earth. The days of the Tribulation can be measured from Bible scriptures.

    So, with Jesus saying what He did in Matthew 24:36, and knowing how long the Tribulation lasts and how Jesus returns at the end of that, it seems to me Jesus in Matthew 24:36 is speaking of not His second coming to Earth but of the Rapture.

    Again, I could be wrong here and, if I am, I sure hope someone sets me straight.

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,072

    Default

    RVIDES,

    I get what you are saying and I too have read all of the pertaining scriptures and arguments in support of different theories. I can not say with 100% certainty that I know when it will occur. I know what I WANT. I WANT a pretrib rapture. Someone once said on this board a LONG time ago that we should "hope for the best and prepare for the worst". I think that is a very wise point of view. My faith is in Jesus, not man's theories, so regardless how it unfolds, I'll stand firm waiting for His return.
    It's a GIRL!

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The United State of Texas
    Posts
    27,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by His Bride View Post
    It won't be a secret to those He calls home. We will have been watching and occupying....and ready to go!
    and it wont be secret for those who witness us snatched away

    Quote Originally Posted by RVIDES View Post
    Thanks for the replys

    I understand all the points that are being made, one thing that i do want to point out is that the verses used as evidence for the rapture,

    1 Thessalonians 4:15–17
    John 14:2–3
    Philippians 3:20-21
    1 Corinthians 15:49–55
    2 Thessalonians 2:1-7
    Matthew 24:36-41

    can be easily applied to the second coming at the end of the tribulations, as for comments like Why would Jesus call his people up to meet him in the air when He, Himself is returning to Earth at the same time? i dont know maybe that just how he want things done, my point is that we can't know for sure. The only reason i am even having small doubts is because the foundations for this teaching of the rapture are weak, It came from John Darby and Mary Macdonald.
    no, it did not begin with Darby and Macdonald, that is propaganda, it began with Paul
    the pretrib rapture is not based upon a woman's vision, you are listening to too many post tribbers
    we cannot know the date of the rapture but we can know the date of the second coming - add 1265 days to the AC entering the temple and you get the second coming

    Quote Originally Posted by RVIDES View Post

    One other thing, doesn't anyone even get remotley concerned that the most brilliant biblical teachers of the past taught that there would be only the second coming and no rapture, and because of some women's (Mary Macdonald) supposed vision, a women who had occultic ties might i add and a man (John Darby) who later began to doubt his own teachings on the rapture that he started and began teaching that the raptured church was actually the man-child in revelation 12 i mean the rapture teaching is only about 130 years old and no Ephraim the Syrian did not teach the rapture teaching, alot of bible teachers like tim laheye and grant jeffrey have falsely said that Ephraim started teaching about the rapture back in 370 A.D when in fact all that Ephraim taught was the same thing every other bible teacher was teaching at the time, that there would only be the second coming.
    there were many brilliant biblical teachers that also taught pretrib in the early years

    http://www.raptureme.com/terry/james27.html

    and many brilliant biblical teachers did not believe there could ever be an EU or Israel becoming a Jewish nation again



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
    Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
    Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    321

    Default

    Can't know time in my opinion because it's not a when that triggers the rapture but a who. Romans 11:25 tells us the tribulation (unhardening of Israel's heart) begins after the full number of gentiles comes in. The body of Christ. As we get closer to the rapture it will be like a funnel effect, until finally one person on earth will confess with their mouth believe in their heart and the body will be complete.

  15. #55
    Tres Wright Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RVIDES View Post
    and what i meant to say before was that Mary and Darby popularized the teaching in 1827, Before then every Bible teacher only had one view that there would only be the second coming, and because of Mary and Darby they changed their teaching that there was going to be a rapture before the tribulation.
    Totally false. Read:

    By far the biggest mistake post-tribulationists have made attacking the rapture is claiming that the pretribulation rapture wasn’t taught before 1830. In fact, John L. Bray, a Southern Baptist evangelist, offered $500 to anyone who could prove that someone taught the rapture doctrine prior to MacDonald's 1830 vision. Bray was first proven wrong when he wrote in a newsletter, "Then my own research indicated that it was Emmanuel Lacunza, a Jesuit Catholic priest, who in the 1812 book The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty, first taught this theory." Bray stuck his neck out again when he made another $500 offer to anyone who could provide a documented statement earlier than Lacunza's 1812 writings. Apparently he had to cough up the 500 bucks. I quote him again: "I offered $500 to anyone who would give a documented statement earlier than Lacunza's time which taught a two-stage coming of Christ separated by a stated period of time.” No one claimed that offer until someone found writings that forced Bray to write the following: “Now I have the Photostat copies of a book published in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, in 1788 but written in 1742-1744 in England, which taught the pretribulation rapture before Lacunza." Lately, a number of other sources have been located that teach the pretribulation rapture--some written as early as the second century. Where does this leave Margaret MacDonald?
    More: http://www.raptureready.com/rr-margaret-mcdonald.html

    Quote Originally Posted by RVIDES View Post
    but like i said before when you look at the context of the verses two things can be applied either its a pre-trib rapture or a post-trib rapture the bottom line is that we can't no for sure. There are alot of assumptions made by pre, mid and post trib believers when they present there arguments and one has to wonder if it even matters if it is a pre, mid or post tribulation rapture. I say lets just trust our lord and be prepared for anything that might or might not happen.
    It's not a salvation issue to be sure, but let's not forget where you are- A PRE-TRIB DISCUSSION FORUM. It's OK to ask questions, but your questions have been asked and answered and you persist in pushing an agenda and that is against our rules. You've been given plenty of info to ponder and the main RR site has tons more info. This looks like a good place to close this thread.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    12

    Default Origin of the Rapture Doctrine

    I'm curious as to whether anyone here is aware of the origin of the doctrine of the "rapture." I used to be a rapture-believing fundamentalist, but finding out where these teachings came from and then trying to discuss my findings with other Christians eventually led me to question the doctrine, and finally to abandon Christianity altogether.

    Some folks on a <some> board told me about this place, so out of curiosity I decided to come and ask what you folks know about the history of this teaching. I'd be especially interested if any apologetics-minded folks have studied the first time that the entire Tribulation/Rapture eschatology appeared in Western theology, and what you can tell me about that.
    Last edited by HeIsEnough; August 26th, 2012 at 08:27 AM.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    483

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Davka View Post
    I'm curious as to whether anyone here is aware of the origin of the doctrine of the "rapture." I used to be a rapture-believing fundamentalist, but finding out where these teachings came from and then trying to discuss my findings with other Christians eventually led me to question the doctrine, and finally to abandon Christianity altogether.

    Some folks on a <some> board told me about this place, so out of curiosity I decided to come and ask what you folks know about the history of this teaching. I'd be especially interested if any apologetics-minded folks have studied the first time that the entire Tribulation/Rapture eschatology appeared in Western theology, and what you can tell me about that.
    Hi Davka,
    Have you taken the time to read any of the articles about the rapture on the RR main page? There are many and they answer the question you ask.

    Another great resource is www.pre-trib.org
    Here is a link to an article you might find useful http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/vie...onal-arguments

    You may get better results by posting your question in the apologetics section of this forum. It sounds like discussing the rapture is the least of your worries, as you describe yourself as having "abondoned Christianity altogether". How about we talk about faith, the gospel, and the basics of the Christian faith?
    Last edited by HeIsEnough; August 26th, 2012 at 08:30 AM. Reason: removed board reference
    1 CORINTHIANS 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

    ROMANS 1:16-17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

  18. #58

    Default

    You might be interested in the information presented in this video:


    "The Rapture: New Teaching Or Timeless Truth? 1 Chronicles 12:32" by Jon Courson

    http://www.joncourson.com/teaching/t...?teaching=T436


    ... particularly (the info) after about the 30-minute mark (if you want to save a bit of time). Please take a listen!


    ETA: He lists some early church teachers who taught the pre-trib rapture doctrine (besides Paul [in Thessalonians], of course), well before the 1800's (which many people wrongly claim was the first time it was taught). 150AD, 270AD, 320/350AD, 373AD, 400AD, etc...

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The United State of Texas
    Posts
    27,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Davka View Post
    I'm curious as to whether anyone here is aware of the origin of the doctrine of the "rapture."
    Yes, the origin of the Rapture began with God through the Holy Spirit and was used several times by God in the Old Testament and taught through Paul in the New Testament.

    Listen to many audio messages on it and read the verses here: http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/htm/rapture.htm

    Quote Originally Posted by Davka View Post
    I used to be a rapture-believing fundamentalist, but finding out where these teachings came from and then trying to discuss my findings with other Christians eventually led me to question the doctrine, and finally to abandon Christianity altogether.
    You should believe God first, then Scripture second, then allow the Holy spirit to save you through the blood of Jesus, then as your foundation is on solid ground you can begin to learn great Biblical teachings such as the rapture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Davka View Post
    Some folks on a <some> board told me about this place,
    "Free thinkers" are actually bondage thinkers because they are still trapped in their sin, they are blind and refuse to admit they are locked in their own cages but Jesus holds the key to eternal life for them; all they have to do is open their eyes and freely receive Jesus' salvation; only then can they become free in their thinking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Davka View Post
    so out of curiosity I decided to come and ask what you folks know about the history of this teaching. I'd be especially interested if any apologetics-minded folks have studied the first time that the entire Tribulation/Rapture eschatology appeared in Western theology, and what you can tell me about that.
    I can tell you about lots of unfounded attacks on the rapture since many are ticked off that the truth of God's next eschatological event is right around the corner!

    Last edited by HeIsEnough; August 26th, 2012 at 08:29 AM. Reason: fixed spelling,, heh



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
    Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
    Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    The United State of Texas
    Posts
    27,706

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JoelH View Post
    A majority of professing evangelical Christians have in fact moved to vote in the ungodly precisely after they have renounced the rapture or they are no rapture believers to begin with. Mark Driscoll believes in no rapture, Brian McLaren and Rob Bell are ardently against eschatology, Hank Hanegraaff is fuzzy politics wise, Ed Dobson and Bill Hybels are no rapture teachers either. This leaves R.C. Sproul. <><
    And they are all wolves in sheep's clothing.



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
    Buzzardhut.net |The Watch Parables | The Rapture | Romans | The Virgin Mary | Roman Catholicism
    Never Heard of Jesus? | The Evidence Bible | Tent Meeting | The Beast/666 | The Kingdom of Darkness | The Nephilim

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •