Please help me witness to Catholics

[Hootmon]

The replies I am getting are that they are allegories and im misinterpreting what John really said-lol

Why do Catholics think everything (or most things) in Rev. are allegories?

Because saying that prevents any argument.

In essence, saying its 'all allegories' renders that Chapter meaningless.

Ask them, 'then why include it in the primary canon if it doesnt mean anything?'.

Compare that to the supposedly 'meaningful' deuterocanon, purgatory and praying to spirits and all that, which by its very name (deuterocanon) means it is of secondary importance.

Challenge them to at least order their 'facts' sensibly. Take it from there...

[Steve53]

All you have to do is present God's word and the Holy Spirit does the rest, you are just the witness, state the facts and move on.

Period.

[iSong6:3]

1 Corinthians 2:1-2

1 Corinthians 2:14

Titus 3:9

2 Timothy 2:23

Matthew 7:6

Matthew 10:14

[dittohead conservative]

REFORMED DOCTRINE- CHAPTER XVII-

I. They, whom God has accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.[1]

II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father;[2] upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ,[3] the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them,[4] and the nature of the covenant of grace:[5] from all which arises also the certainty and infallibility thereof.[6]

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;[7] and, for a time, continue therein:[8] whereby they incur God's displeasure,[9] and grieve His Holy Spirit,[10] come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts,[11] have their hearts hardened,[12] and their consciences wounded;[13] hurt and scandalize others,[14] and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.[15]

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wc...s/ch_XVII.html

Why do Catholics try to say that this is talking about losing Salvation? I believe in OSAS by the way.

[Blood Bought]

I don't know about man's doctrinal statements or philosophy, but Ephesians 1 and Ephesians 5:30, among others, settles the matter.

[$teve]

It's not really saying it is a loss of salvation is it? Or are you asking if Catholics interpret this as evidence of loss of salvation? Not sure what you are asking.

[Tall Timbers]

There's at least one movement in the catholic church that is teaching that everyone goes to heaven. I once overheard an old priest sharing that... I politely interrupted, and applying his own logic I suggested that if that is the case then satan and all the other fallen angels would be able to stay in heaven too. Because of his logic, he couldn't dispute that idea... That thought did cast a cloud over his sharing

I think that individual catholic's beliefs are all over the place...

[dittohead conservative]

and why/how to show they are not speaking of a purgatory?

[icebear]

purgatory is an rcc invention fundraiser. blasphemy

[jonshaff]

2 Corinthians 5:10 (KJV)
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad.

To me, when Paul uses "all" that definitely rules out purgatory, based on RCC beliefs. I don't think they believe everyone has to go to purgatory. Only those who weren't "good enough" in this life.

[LightOfMyLife]

These are verses for rewards good or bad. I Corinthians 3:12-15. There are only 2 places a person goes heaven or hell there is no in between.

[IMSAVED]

Lets understand purgatory.

http://www.gotquestions.org/purgatory.html

[jonshaff]

Key Verses on Rewards: Rom. 14:10-11; 1 Cor. 3:11-15; 2 Cor. 5:9-10; 1 John 2:28; Rev. 3:11-12.

[IMSAVED]

Bema Seat issues

http://www.gotquestions.org/judgment-seat-Christ.html

[LightOfMyLife]

and why/how to show they are not speaking of a purgatory?

The Bema seat is only for believers, and their rewards are based on good deeds verses bad deeds. They are saved or they would not be at this judgment on deeds. There is another judgment which is for those who rejected Jesus as their Savior. They will be at the Great White Throne Judgment.

[dittohead conservative]

I do not believe in purgatory. Thanks for the verses on the Bema. I have the book called The Bema but the author does not use much scripture- its just a story....

[IMSAVED]

The Bema seat is only for believers, and their rewards are based on good deeds verses bad deeds. They are saved or they would not be at this judgment on deeds. There is another judgment which is for those who rejected Jesus as their Savior. They will be at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Yes,we will be in Heaven as believers that will be a Blessing in itself.But we will also be judged on things we did while we are in our Earthly bodies.Some will get rewards and will be richly Blessed while others will not.I don't know what that entails.I believe the Bible describes it as a man who barely escapes a fire with just his shirt.

[Buzzardhut]

They might be re-opening Limbo because Purgatorio is getting over crowded with lawyers.

[NoProvision]

When and where is the Bema judgement?

I didn't think I was going to find this so fast but here's an awesome sermon/teaching on this by Floyd Jones: http://www.floydnolenjones.com/Floyd...Judgement.html

[Buzzardhut]

When and where is the Bema judgement?

I didn't think I was going to find this so fast but here's an awesome sermon/teaching on this by Floyd Jones: http://www.floydnolenjones.com/Floyd...Judgement.html