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Thread: Please help me witness to Catholics

  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzardhut View Post
    Good questions other people need to ask and know; the best way to learn. Keep them coming!

    thanks Buzz and iSong. I will.

  2. #122
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    DH - I get the sense from reading this thread that your friend is more interested in debating you than in learning where her errors lie.
    If all she wants to do is banter and rebut all you are offering it may be time to confront her with exactly what it is she is hoping to accomplish. Get her to state in as few words as possible whether she believes her eternal destiny is secure.
    Anything other than a "yes" provides you the chance to simply explain that the free gift of salvation comes with no strings attached. It really is that simple.
    Anything else is obfuscation - clouded vision.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  3. #123

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    good point Steve. I already know one of the other Catholic ladies in the thread just hopes she goes to Heaven. Of course they both believe in Purgatory,etc...

    Oh if its easier my name is Kevin

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by dittohead conservative View Post
    good point Steve. I already know one of the other Catholic ladies in the thread just hopes she goes to Heaven. Of course they both believe in Purgatory,etc...

    Oh if its easier my name is Kevin
    The other aspect of this whole situation for us is that "we're" also debating with her via you on another board and that's something we can't do effectively third hand. We are turning thoroughly plowed ground; Isaiah 28:24 NIV: When a farmer plows for planting, does he plow continually? Does he keep on breaking up and working the soil?

    The other person(s) "party to this discussion" aren't here to represent themselves' no matter how well you may convey their message and ours back and forth and ultimately that does a disservice to everyone.

    For you, it may be much better to just study up on the Catholic religion cult and once armed with the facts, present your own case - first hand - in your own words with conviction. You already know you are presenting the Gospel Truth. Take it to them on their ground and if they reject the message, move along. It is not up to you to "save them" - You will have done all the Lord asks and more - The rest is between them and Jesus.

    http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?4508...your-Testimony!
    http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?6531...that-Bind-quot
    http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?1777...an-Catholicism

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve53 View Post
    For you, it may be much better to just study up on the Catholic religion cult and once armed with the facts, present your own case - first hand - in your own words with conviction.

    When I witness to a RC, I find that this tactic is effective:

    Talk about the latest apparition Mary sighting [Medjugorje is controversial] and just ask the question:

    Are you comfortable with the RCC's teachings on Mary?
    I have found that most Catholics don't embrace their church's obsession with everything Mary.

  6. #126

    Lightbulb Purgatory and the verse used by Catholics to try to justify it?

    I think it would be good to have a list of all the verses they use (cannot be that many?) to try to justify Purgatory all in one thread. I am debating to a few Catholics that it does not exist. I know one they use a lot is Cor. 3:10-15. Can someone more experienced than me list these verses and a short reason WHY they are not speaking of purgatory? Your help is much appreciated!

    so for ex the Cor. verse- what it says and why they think it is Purgatory and why it is not according to Christians.

    Here are some verses I found: Rev. 21:27, Mt. 12:31-36 are just two.

    They use mortal and venial sins. They (Catholics) say this is an important basis for there being such a thing as purgatory. Those who die in mortal sin, will not go to heaven. Those who die in God's grace, but still with sins on their soul, will go to purgatory. There are many passages in Scripture that say that if one commits those mortal sins, those people will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. We see this in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Eph. 5:3-6, Mt. 5:22, 28, 30, Mk. 9:42-49.

    Venial sins- their position is this from what I know- As we are in a covenant relation with the Father, as adopted sons, we do not get cast out of grace if we sin in a lesser fashion. For example, there is a difference in treatment by God of those who commit small sins, as opposed to mortal sins. One example is Hebrews 12:5-17. Here are a couple of New Testament passages they use which reflect the need for spiritual sufferings to join with Christ:

    Phil. 3:10-That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death.

    Col. 1:24- Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church....

    oh and of course they use- 2 Maccabees 12:43-46

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  8. #128
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    That is very good explanation of the falsehood of purgatory, which was originally a tool used by the RCC to replenish the coffers of the Church after one Pope completely bankrupted the RCC.

    From Jack Kelley's www.gracethrufaith.com

    http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bibl...ory/#more-9921

    http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bibl...-is-purgatory/

    Basically, the RCc teaching of purgatory is the assumption that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient, imperfect, enough to pay for sin. Just some, and then a person can then pay for their sins, as though they were perfection, before God, in a way Jesus could not. It is of course, an awful teaching that leaves a Catholic with the impression that they can "work" of their sin and die lost, and still recover enough to please God with their sacrifice of spending a while in Hell-lite, but eventually earn enough points to get into heaven anyway.
    Psalm 30:11-12 (New King James Version)

    11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;
    You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,
    12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to You and not be silent.
    O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.



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  9. #129
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    I grew up being told that purgatory was a load of crock, even though I was raised Catholic. No one, my Catholic relatives, my teachers at my Catholic high school or college, or Catholic friends ever held/hold any credence to the existence of purgatory. I feel like it's an "outdated" belief in modern Catholic culture, but I may be wrong since I'm no longer a part of that group of people. It makes absolutely no sense, why do people still believe it could possibly exist? When did God ever say we had to do extra things to "earn" our way to heaven? Since when has God's grace and free gift of salvation not been enough?
    "No temptation has seized you except what is common to man, and God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out, so that you can stand up under it"~1 Corinthians 10:13

    Keep your eyes on the skies, for the Lord is coming!

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  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katia_0203 View Post
    I grew up being told that purgatory was a load of crock, even though I was raised Catholic. No one, my Catholic relatives, my teachers at my Catholic high school or college, or Catholic friends ever held/hold any credence to the existence of purgatory. I feel like it's an "outdated" belief in modern Catholic culture, but I may be wrong since I'm no longer a part of that group of people. It makes absolutely no sense, why do people still believe it could possibly exist? When did God ever say we had to do extra things to "earn" our way to heaven? Since when has God's grace and free gift of salvation not been enough?
    I think people want another route to heaven exept through Jesus Christ only.That way no one really goes to hell but spends some time in a fictitious place and no matter how bad they have been they eventually still go to heaven.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katia_0203 View Post
    I grew up being told that purgatory was a load of crock, even though I was raised Catholic. No one, my Catholic relatives, my teachers at my Catholic high school or college, or Catholic friends ever held/hold any credence to the existence of purgatory. I feel like it's an "outdated" belief in modern Catholic culture, but I may be wrong since I'm no longer a part of that group of people. It makes absolutely no sense, why do people still believe it could possibly exist? When did God ever say we had to do extra things to "earn" our way to heaven? Since when has God's grace and free gift of salvation not been enough?
    An even bigger problem for catholics is to explain how a doctrine of the church could be ignored or changed. The church keeps it quiet, but it still must be accepted and all the post death ritual for catholics shows it is still the view of the church. The can't deny it, since it would show that there was error all through their history, and the church cannot be wrong on matters of faith. (At least that's what they tell us.)
    There is One King, and He is not this guy.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katia_0203 View Post
    I grew up being told that purgatory was a load of crock, even though I was raised Catholic. No one, my Catholic relatives, my teachers at my Catholic high school or college, or Catholic friends ever held/hold any credence to the existence of purgatory. I feel like it's an "outdated" belief in modern Catholic culture, but I may be wrong since I'm no longer a part of that group of people. It makes absolutely no sense, why do people still believe it could possibly exist? When did God ever say we had to do extra things to "earn" our way to heaven? Since when has God's grace and free gift of salvation not been enough?
    It makes sense that the modern day Catholic would understand the fallacy of purgatory. But I can remember, just 10 years ago, debating purgatory with some died in the wool Catholics. The Biblical gymnastics they did to justify the teaching of purgatory was sad. And that is when I really learned that in order to defend the RCC at any cost, these same people used any and all reasons to justify unbiblical or anti-Biblical teachings.

    Purgatory and Indulgences have been defended by many in the Catholic church, and the actual history of both are a matter of record, and yet so many Catholics deny the true history of purgatory and Indulgences.
    Psalm 30:11-12 (New King James Version)

    11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;
    You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,
    12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to You and not be silent.
    O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.



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  13. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    [Medjugorje is controversial]
    If I couldn't pronounce it, I wouldn't believe it either.
    Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.

    Joel 3:2

    I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

  14. #134
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    Did someone call for the Great Roman Catholic Salvation Plan?

    http://www.buzzardhut.net/Chick/plan.htm




    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
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  15. #135

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    Hebrews 10:4-6?

    It is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and shared in the the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are they are re-crucifying the Son of God afresh, and holding him up to contempt.

    is this what a catholic bible says on these verses? Mine is about blood of bulls and goats.

    And if that is what a catholic bible says above how do you defend OSAS, which I believe.

  16. #136
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    It's Hebrews 6:4-6.

    Jack Kelley discusses those verses here: http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/eter...e-whole-story/

    And from gotquestions: http://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrews-6.html
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


    Jesus + something = nothing

    Jesus + nothing = Everything

  17. #137

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    iSong, Buzzard and others... she is saying that Purgatory has nothing to do with supplementing Christ's atonement. It has to do with giving up or overcoming sinful ways that may still be with us upon death. For example, if she has been an impatient person all her life, then how she I expect to have an abundance of patience the second she dies? She says that she is still the same person. She still has a fault to overcome. Then she says Overcome/turn away from...not atone. Do you understand this difference she asks...

    She says there is much more to holiness than saying, "Christ died for us." Saying, "Christ died for me" has not kept her from all sin. She says there is so much more involved in rejecting sin and learning the ways of the Lord than reciting and believing, "Christ died for me." So much more. And so worthwhile. She chooses to work in the vineyard from sunrise to sundown, to walk the way of the Cross every day of my life...as best she can. She welcomes the thought that final purification is available, so that she may stand before the Lord as truly holy--she'll wait until that day so that He need make no pretense of seeing something she is really not. God is a God of truth.

  18. #138
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    Romans 7:17-20 talks about a believer living with a sin nature. Verses 17 and 20 are mind-blowers. When we are translated, we lose our sin nature. We only have God's nature left. His salvation is indeed that big. No purgatory needed in Biblical salvation.
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


    Jesus + something = nothing

    Jesus + nothing = Everything

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by dittohead conservative View Post
    .. she is saying that Purgatory has nothing to do with supplementing Christ's atonement....

    It has everything to do with supplementing Christ's atonement. It's a "work" and denies Christ's finished work on the cross.

    Also - We're still dancing without a partner here DC. It's very difficult to have a third hand discussion with someone not present....And it's something we generally refrain from doing because the results are often poor and the round and round never seems to stop.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  20. #140

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    praying to souls has always been a Church practice she says- since It was even mentioned by Origen and Tertullian.

    anyway this is my last post on this.

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