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Thread: Can you be saved but not bear any fruit?

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    Question Can you be saved but not bear any fruit?

    I am wondering because I am fairly new as a Christian (6 months) and I don't want to make it seem like I'm bragging but I can definitely see me bearing much fruit as mentioned in the book of Galatians. My question is can you be saved and not show any signs of being saved whatsoever. My mom claims that she has been saved since her earlier years, I'm guessing teenage or right around that time. She says that she has spoken in tongues before but as of right now her life is in total shambles. She has an outrageous anger problem that can flare up at any moment, she is very very deceptive (she ran up a $1200 electric bill in my name and still hasn't told me about it to this day even though I already know she did), and her words can cut through steel.

    I know it is not right to judge but how can someone claim to be saved and talk about how much she loves Jesus but act the same way that the world acts? I cannot see any fruit coming from her at all.

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    Your mother may or not be saved. There will be those who lose rewards at the Bema Seat Judgment, the one for believers, because of what they do or don't do with their lives.

    Imo, the best thing you can do is pray for her (including conviction of sin) and continue to grow in the Lord in meekness and honoring her the best you can with God's strength. Let your very life witness to her how salvation is not the end but a beginning of an eternity with God and also the beginning of our being conformed into the image of Jesus/sanctification. Let your walk with the Lord provoke her to jealousy.
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


    Jesus + something = nothing

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    Hi JesusSaves91. Keep your eyes on Jesus, pray often, and study His Word regularly. Good things will result from your prayers alone, and the Lord will certainly use you. Ditto what iSong says with regards to your mother. There are as many reasons why people behave unrighteously as there are people. You might just become an important example to your mother, and/or others in this world. We're different parts of the same body. I'm probably an arm pit or some such thing but I know that God uses me even as He draws me closer to Him, and any good that comes out of it is for His glory. It'll be a wonderful day when our understanding becomes deeper and wider and we can see how God worked in our lives and how He used us to touch others and build His Kingdom. It is my prayer that your own example helps your mother find the Lord and/or draw into a closer relationship with Him.
    Tall Timbers

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    Smile Welcome To RR! Your 1st Post

    Quote Originally Posted by JesusSaves91 View Post
    I am wondering because I am fairly new as a Christian (6 months) and I don't want to make it seem like I'm bragging but I can definitely see me bearing much fruit as mentioned in the book of Galatians. My question is can you be saved and not show any signs of being saved whatsoever. My mom claims that she has been saved since her earlier years, I'm guessing teenage or right around that time. She says that she has spoken in tongues before but as of right now her life is in total shambles. She has an outrageous anger problem that can flare up at any moment, she is very very deceptive (she ran up a $1200 electric bill in my name and still hasn't told me about it to this day even though I already know she did), and her words can cut through steel.

    I know it is not right to judge but how can someone claim to be saved and talk about how much she loves Jesus but act the same way that the world acts? I cannot see any fruit coming from her at all.
    JesusSaves91, When we do not Walk in the Spirit, we are fulfilling the lust of the flesh. I am of these scriptures in Galatians 5:14-26. We have 2 natures and they are warring against each other. Our enemies are the flesh, the devil, and this world. for your mother, and let your light shine so others may see that Jesus Spirit lives inside of you. I you see an improvement in your mother, and sanctification is a process in all Christian's lives. None of us are perfect only by the blood of Jesus are we justified & sanctified.
    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Love RR Family, Janice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tall Timbers View Post
    We're different parts of the same body. I'm probably an arm pit or some such thing but I know that God uses me even as He draws me closer to Him, and any good that comes out of it is for His glory.
    I'm sorry, I had to laugh at this picture... . At any given moment, any one of us could be an armpit.
    Oh, wait, that's a different conversation.


    Quote Originally Posted by LightOfMyLife View Post
    JesusSaves91, When we do not Walk in the Spirit, we are fulfilling the lust of the flesh. I am of these scriptures in Galatians 5:14-26. We have 2 natures and they are warring against each other. Our enemies are the flesh, the devil, and this world. for your mother, and let your light shine so others may see that Jesus Spirit lives inside of you. I you see an improvement in your mother, and sanctification is a process in all Christian's lives. None of us are perfect only by the blood of Jesus are we justified & sanctified.
    As I was reading this thread (and before I got to this one), this is where my thoughts were going, as well. But you said it much better. Great post! Fruit-bearing comes from our union with Christ (our relationship with Him; Romans 7:4), but not every believer has a good grasp of that union, and very often our flesh gets in the way and hinders that. For some, the flesh is evidenced in "self-effort," for others, in basic "self-ishness"... We all have areas we need for Him to control more and more fully.

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    As a young Christian I use to think some people were so holy that I was, seriously, afraid to be around them. Later in life discovered that absolutely nobody is perfect or anywhere near approaching. Of course we cannot comment on your mother's salvation because we only have your word for it and we don't know what is going on in her heart. She may very well be bearing 'fruit' but it isn't made apparent to us. Besides that, it can be difficult to determine if one is a Christian by their behaviour alone, as many unbelievers can be very good people too, yet they are not saved. The bible indeed stirs us to good works because we are saved, in loving response to Jesus. We're not going to be perfect this side of heaven though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acceptedintheBeloved View Post
    I'm sorry, I had to laugh at this picture... . At any given moment, any one of us could be an armpit.
    Oh, wait, that's a different conversation.




    As I was reading this thread (and before I got to this one), this is where my thoughts were going, as well. But you said it much better. Great post! Fruit-bearing comes from our union with Christ (our relationship with Him; Romans 7:4), but not every believer has a good grasp of that union, and very often our flesh gets in the way and hinders that. For some, the flesh is evidenced in "self-effort," for others, in basic "self-ishness"... We all have areas we need for Him to control more and more fully.
    I agree this is a great post, LightofMyLife! Welcome to RR, JesusSaves91 ! Very good site to come for answers about questions relating to this life and the one to come!

    AcceptedintheBeloved, I got a giggle too when reading TT's description of himself in the body of Christ. Little does he realize that armpits play a very special role in identifying a person! we humans have a nose that isn't as sensitive as as many other creatures, however that doesn't cancel out the importance of the lowly armpit's role in the Body.....so says the gluteus maximus (aka the behind). Apt for me because I'm always running a little late.
    This world is not my home. I'm just passing through. If heaven's not my home, O Lord, what would I do? The angels beckon me from heaven's open door, and I can't feel at home in this world anymore."
    Complete justice for us will come only "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels" (v. 7).

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    Quote Originally Posted by moosejive View Post
    I agree this is a great post, LightofMyLife! Welcome to RR, JesusSaves91 ! Very good site to come for answers about questions relating to this life and the one to come!

    AcceptedintheBeloved, I got a giggle too when reading TT's description of himself in the body of Christ. Little does he realize that armpits play a very special role in identifying a person! we humans have a nose that isn't as sensitive as as many other creatures, however that doesn't cancel out the importance of the lowly armpit's role in the Body.....so says the gluteus maximus (aka the behind). Apt for me because I'm always running a little late.
    Speaking of armpits there is a certain word that is used in the church. They are called pews! That word always struck me funny. God gives us a sense of humor!
    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Love RR Family, Janice

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    ^^^ (Moosejive and LightOfMyLife )

    Quote Originally Posted by $teve View Post
    As a young Christian I use to think some people were so holy that I was, seriously, afraid to be around them. Later in life discovered that absolutely nobody is perfect or anywhere near approaching. Of course we cannot comment on your mother's salvation because we only have your word for it and we don't know what is going on in her heart. She may very well be bearing 'fruit' but it isn't made apparent to us. Besides that, it can be difficult to determine if one is a Christian by their behaviour alone, as many unbelievers can be very good people too, yet they are not saved. The bible indeed stirs us to good works because we are saved, in loving response to Jesus. We're not going to be perfect this side of heaven though.
    These are some very good points as well, $teve.

    Sometimes our family members see the worst in us. (Sometimes that's ALL they see. I know that, at a certain point in my young life [loooong ago], I was focused on certain "negatives" in my own mother's character... and didn't really see the good that was there.) Not that that's what you (JesusSaves91) are doing, necessarily, mind you. Just a thought that occurred... (based on my own distant memories).


    Welcome to RR, JesusSaves91.

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    JesusSaves91 - Here's a short thread about salvation and bearing fruit. One question quoted (#3) is similar to your OP: http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=152641
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


    Jesus + something = nothing

    Jesus + nothing = Everything

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    Thanks, isong-that thread was very helpful for me also.
    This world is not my home. I'm just passing through. If heaven's not my home, O Lord, what would I do? The angels beckon me from heaven's open door, and I can't feel at home in this world anymore."
    Complete justice for us will come only "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels" (v. 7).

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    Quote Originally Posted by moosejive View Post
    Thanks, isong-that thread was very helpful for me also.
    Thanks iSong6:3, great scriptural based thread!
    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Love RR Family, Janice

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    Quote Originally Posted by moosejive View Post
    Thanks, isong-that thread was very helpful for me also.
    Quote Originally Posted by LightOfMyLife View Post
    Thanks iSong6:3, great scriptural based thread!
    Praise God, agreeing it's a good thread.
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


    Jesus + something = nothing

    Jesus + nothing = Everything

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    Pray

    This is called the Darth Vador complex or the Samson complex. I don't mean to jest a very biblically real subject here but it does exist. We are told to seek the Lord while He can still be found. But there are those children of God who are so scarred by traumatic events in their lives that God uses them in extraordinary ways for His extraordinary purposes. Jesus extolled upon this when He explained to Nicodemus about His Spirit. John 3:8. We will never know how, when, and who the Holy Spirit decides to move upon someone. Can someone be saved but not show the fruits of the Spirit? Yes---in the beginning but not the end. The end of the testimony is all that matters to God. Does He want us to live a holy life? Absolutely!

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    Default What are man's fruits?

    The Bible says we will know them by their fruits. For a long time I was under the thought that this means the fruits of the Holy Spirit showing in their lives: Love joy peace patience gentleness faithfulness self control. But it recently struck (why didn't I catch this before?) me that God is speaking about THEIR fruits, not the fruits of the Holy Spirit that were given to them. For instance, the fruits of a pastor would be rightly dividing the Word of God and effectively expounding on it. The fruits of a missionary would be to have many true converts. The fruits of a helper or administrator would be that the things he/she does behind the scenes would build up the body of people they are serving rather than making things more difficult or dropping the ball, etc.

    John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruitfruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.

    Has anybody else heard or read any good commentary about "man's fruits" that you could share? Are there any references in the OT regarding this that anybody can think of?

    Would appreciate the help. Thanks in advance!

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    Matthew 7 is often cited, but the context is often overlooked:

    Matthew 7: 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

    So, the context is that we will know false prophets by their fruit. Who and what do they gather around them, what are they teaching? If they are plucking the poison fruit of Word of Faith, for example, we know to stay away from them. Notice that they, on the surface, have done "many wonderful works," but that without preaching the true Jesus along with grace and faith, it is worse than empty.

    Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

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    I agree with your post but it must not only apply to false teachers or we would not all be told to go and bear fruits. I'm still wondering about man's fruits in general. He tells us to bear fruit and since I know fruit & works are not the same, and love joy peace, etc. is the HS's fruits (gifts to us) and not the fruits that we humans bare, what are the fruits that man bares? My assumption would be that it's the things we do which come from God's character in us like being compassionate or doing a good job at work, being a good friend, etc. But that's all works too so what is the fruits part? Look at John 15:16, go and bear fruit, lasting fruit. What is that fruit and how do we make sure it's the lasting kind?

    John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

    5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

    In Genesis we are told to be fruitful and multiply, ie. have children. But what other things would be considered "bearing fruit" that is not a work?

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    Man's fruit is always rotten, even if it looks good on the outside. In the life of a Christian, if we give our will over to God, our fruit is the fruit of the Spirit. Good only comes from God, hence, good fruit originates with Him. I guess what I'm saying is that we are told that man's righteousness (notice it's man's righteousness, not his evil) that is like filthy rags.

    It is accounted to us for righteousness when we respond to God in faith. We are saved by faith and live by faith, that sanctification faith results in seeing fruit in our life, but that fruit comes from the Spirit, and then we yield to Him in guidance. For example, if we are generous and give to charity and if that is an actual good fruit, it had to originate with the Spirit. So, in effect, believers' fruit is synonymous with the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Even if it is something like being a good leader, that's a gift.

    This is a huge reason why we should be humble in our walk and around others, any good didn't originate with us.

    Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

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    So in your opinion do you think it would be a correct summation that man's fruits are simply the works that the HS does through us? Since the gifts of the HS were capabilities given to men to use in their own power like speaking in tongues or healing the sick, could we say that that the works of the Holy Spirit are not really powers He gives us but things He compels us to do? So in effect the fruits of man are the works done through us. That really makes sense when you consider He is the vine, we are the branches. The vine is doing all the work nourishing and watering the fruit, and the fruit just grows because the vine is good and knows what it's doing.

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    In a way, the fruit is the product of the vine but the burden of the branch.
    The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
    Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
    (Psa 19:1b-2)

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