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Thread: Was the Catholic Church the sole record keeper for all these years?

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    Default Was the Catholic Church the sole record keeper for all these years?

    Me and my father were having a discussion and this question came up. Were they the only record keepers, copiers of the Bible for all those years up until the reformation? Where were the Christians during the time of the Catholic Church's reign?
    I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Revelation 22:13

    In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God. Psalm 10:4

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    Textus Receptus.
    It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

    John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    Textus Receptus.
    Whatus is thatus?
    I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Revelation 22:13

    In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God. Psalm 10:4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtown View Post
    Me and my father were having a discussion and this question came up. Were they the only record keepers, copiers of the Bible for all those years up until the reformation? Where were the Christians during the time of the Catholic Church's reign?
    Sadly, they had to be in hiding because the rcc was murdering true Christians.

    Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.




    My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.
    For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; the flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; the fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.


    Baruch haba b'Shem Yahweh!!


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    Later version based on the Greek Byzantine text -


    wiki-

    For some time following the fourth century different types of text were current in the East, but at the end the Byzantine text "almost wholly displaced the rest."[1] The Byzantine text-type has by far the largest number of surviving manuscripts, many of them written in the newer minuscule (lower case) style and in Polytonic orthography handwriting, which had been invented in the 3rd century BC by Aristophanes of Byzantium but which took many centuries to catch on outside scholarly circles. For example, of 522 complete or nearly complete manuscripts of the General Epistles collated by the Institute for New Testament Textual Research in Münster, Germany, 372 of them attest the Byzantine reading in at least 90% of 98 test places. Amongst the earliest surviving manuscripts, the position is reversed. There are six manuscripts earlier than the 9th century which conform to the Byzantine text-type; of which the 5th century Codex Alexandrinus, (the oldest), is Byzantine only in the Gospels with the rest of the New Testament being Alexandrian. By comparison, the Alexandrian text-type is witnessed by nine surviving uncials earlier than the ninth century (including the Codex Alexandrinus outside the Gospels); and is also usually considered to be demonstrated in three earlier papyri. Modern critical editions of the New Testament tend to conform most often to Alexandrian witnesses — especially Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. The earliest Church Father to witness to a Byzantine text-type in substantial New Testament quotations is John Chrysostom (c. 349 — 407); although the fragmentary surviving works of Asterius the Sophist († 341) have also been considered to conform to the Byzantine text.[2] Chrysostom and Asterius used text only in 75% agreed with the standard Byzantine text. The earliest translation to witness to a Greek base conforming generally to the Byzantine text in the Gospels is the Syriac Peshitta (though it has many Alexandrian and Western readings); usually dated to the 4th century; although in respect of several much contested readings, such as Mark 1:2 and John 1:18, the Peshitta rather supports the Alexandrian witnesses.

    The form of the Byzantine text found in the earliest witnesses is not a monolithic whole, and sometimes differs from a Byzantine sub-group of manuscripts that proliferated after the 11th century. Amongst the bulk of later manuscripts however, it is generally possible to demonstrate a clear Byzantine majority reading for each variant; and a Greek New Testament text based on these majority readings — "The Majority Text" — has been produced by Zane C. Hodges and Arthur L. Farstad, although this text does not correspond to any one particular manuscript.
    It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

    John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

    “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    Later version based on the Greek Byzantine text -


    wiki-

    For some time following the fourth century different types of text were current in the East, but at the end the Byzantine text "almost wholly displaced the rest."[1] The Byzantine text-type has by far the largest number of surviving manuscripts, many of them written in the newer minuscule (lower case) style and in Polytonic orthography handwriting, which had been invented in the 3rd century BC by Aristophanes of Byzantium but which took many centuries to catch on outside scholarly circles. For example, of 522 complete or nearly complete manuscripts of the General Epistles collated by the Institute for New Testament Textual Research in Münster, Germany, 372 of them attest the Byzantine reading in at least 90% of 98 test places. Amongst the earliest surviving manuscripts, the position is reversed. There are six manuscripts earlier than the 9th century which conform to the Byzantine text-type; of which the 5th century Codex Alexandrinus, (the oldest), is Byzantine only in the Gospels with the rest of the New Testament being Alexandrian. By comparison, the Alexandrian text-type is witnessed by nine surviving uncials earlier than the ninth century (including the Codex Alexandrinus outside the Gospels); and is also usually considered to be demonstrated in three earlier papyri. Modern critical editions of the New Testament tend to conform most often to Alexandrian witnesses — especially Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. The earliest Church Father to witness to a Byzantine text-type in substantial New Testament quotations is John Chrysostom (c. 349 — 407); although the fragmentary surviving works of Asterius the Sophist († 341) have also been considered to conform to the Byzantine text.[2] Chrysostom and Asterius used text only in 75% agreed with the standard Byzantine text. The earliest translation to witness to a Greek base conforming generally to the Byzantine text in the Gospels is the Syriac Peshitta (though it has many Alexandrian and Western readings); usually dated to the 4th century; although in respect of several much contested readings, such as Mark 1:2 and John 1:18, the Peshitta rather supports the Alexandrian witnesses.

    The form of the Byzantine text found in the earliest witnesses is not a monolithic whole, and sometimes differs from a Byzantine sub-group of manuscripts that proliferated after the 11th century. Amongst the bulk of later manuscripts however, it is generally possible to demonstrate a clear Byzantine majority reading for each variant; and a Greek New Testament text based on these majority readings — "The Majority Text" — has been produced by Zane C. Hodges and Arthur L. Farstad, although this text does not correspond to any one particular manuscript.
    That was tough to follow, and I consider myself a very good reader.
    I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Revelation 22:13

    In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God. Psalm 10:4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verisimilitude View Post
    Sadly, they had to be in hiding because the rcc was murdering true Christians.

    Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
    Ay...I wonder if they were slaughtered in the inquisition as well?
    I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. Revelation 22:13

    In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God. Psalm 10:4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtown View Post
    Ay...I wonder if they were slaughtered in the inquisition as well?
    http://www.cuttingedge.org/News/n1676.cfm

    http://rekindlingthereformation.com/...slaughter.html

    The rcc has a very bloody history. It's something they managed to hide very well. Most of mankind is unaware, but The Lord has seen all the tortures and murders they've conducted over the centuries. It's the reason The Lord has devoted a fair sized portion of the Book of Revelation to them.




    My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.
    For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; the flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; the fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.


    Baruch haba b'Shem Yahweh!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    Later version based on the Greek Byzantine text -


    wiki-



    The form of the Byzantine text found in the earliest witnesses is not a monolithic whole, and sometimes differs from a Byzantine sub-group of manuscripts that proliferated after the 11th century. Amongst the bulk of later manuscripts however, it is generally possible to demonstrate a clear Byzantine majority reading for each variant; and a Greek New Testament text based on these majority readings — "The Majority Text" — has been produced by Zane C. Hodges and Arthur L. Farstad, although this text does not correspond to any one particular manuscript.[/COLOR]
    So, does this mean our Bible translations now are based more on the Biblical text that true Christians had hidden from the rrc? And less on the rrc version?
    "Therefore my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable,
    always abounding in the work of the Lord;
    knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain."

    1 Corinthians 15:58 (ESV)

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    You might enjoy this: The main header link is here: http://crowedataflow.com/orthodox/churchpedigree.htm

    Jewish Christians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Christians
    Oriental Orthodox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_Orthodox
    Coptic Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_Church
    Syriac Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_Orthodox_Church
    Ethiopian Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Orthodox
    Armenian Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Orthodox

    And of course Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic. These are just some of those out there. The RCC would have everyone think it was only them, narcissistic as they are.
    Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.

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    When the Bible was translated to English, the Catholic church persecuted and slaugtered the translators, publishers, and Bible smugglers.

    Andrew Murray was NOT the first Bible smuggler - they were very active in the 1500's.

    Up until that point, the Bible was only available in Latin, to the Catholic Clergy and scholars.

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  12. #12

    Default sole record

    At the time of Jesus-he passed much to his apostles via oral history. They in turn recorded it- and interpretations were added along the way when it became third and 4th person. At the time of the RCC- the only people who could read and write were monks priests and other educated individuals . The serfs only heard what the elite allowed them to hear. In several thousand years- the message of Jesus sure got messed with.

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    Fox's Book of Martyrs gives a lurid account of the bloodthirsty rcc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzardhut View Post
    Thanks Buzz! I had no idea where our 'modern' translations come from. Now I see why some people are so adamant about using only the King James Version. But what I don't understand is, why didn't they keep the integrity of the King James when they made the New King James? (sorry, maybe those other links had info on this, I didn't read them all yet)

    I really don't understand either, why they messed with the verse that spells out the Trinity - 1 John 5:7. See, I thought all other translations other than the King James were only trying to do a good thing and make the Bible more easy to understand. however, that website shows where the translations came from, I never knew! But I still can't always understand the King James, so I am sad. I don't want to give up my Bibles that I can easily understand! Oh, dilemma!
    "Therefore my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable,
    always abounding in the work of the Lord;
    knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain."

    1 Corinthians 15:58 (ESV)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly View Post
    Thanks Buzz! I had no idea where our 'modern' translations come from. Now I see why some people are so adamant about using only the King James Version. But what I don't understand is, why didn't they keep the integrity of the King James when they made the New King James? (sorry, maybe those other links had info on this, I didn't read them all yet)

    I really don't understand either, why they messed with the verse that spells out the Trinity - 1 John 5:7. See, I thought all other translations other than the King James were only trying to do a good thing and make the Bible more easy to understand. however, that website shows where the translations came from, I never knew! But I still can't always understand the King James, so I am sad. I don't want to give up my Bibles that I can easily understand! Oh, dilemma!
    Catholic influence always in the shadows. http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/Ripped/

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    The issue is the based in the idea of manuscript evidence, the origin of those manuscripts and the dating. The better translations take all of those things into account, and you rarely see a modern version based on one set, or line, of manuscripts. Usually all available manuscripts are utilized. The KJV only position doesn't take other manuscripts into account. A fair comparison of all major manuscripts is one thing that separates us from other religions; they pick and choose (like the Koran) instead of utilizing textual criticism to double check biblical content. Also, the KJV doesn't take into account the new discoveries since it's translation and compilation, including new discovers about ancient Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew language use and writing, as well as the new manuscripts that are indeed older than the manuscripts used to form the KJV.

    The truth is, the "Catholic church" was not a monolith back then, as it was now. Each local church body had manuscripts and copies, those copies can be compared and contrasted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtown View Post
    Me and my father were having a discussion and this question came up. Were they the only record keepers, copiers of the Bible for all those years up until the reformation? Where were the Christians during the time of the Catholic Church's reign?
    I am so glad you asked about this. The Catholic church has been running an ad during 'The Bible' miniseries where they claim they wrote the Bible. I find that claim extremely blasphemous. God wrote the Bible, not the Catholic Church. Most of us have had to deal with a coworker who likes to take the credit for someone else's work. The Catholic church is doing the same thing- they're just bold enough to try to take credit for God's work. The Catholic church did not write the Bible; they did try to hijack and obscure it. Given their history, how hypocritical they are to now claim it is their gift to us! I guess it goes back to the old notion, if you're going to tell a lie, tell a bold lie. How sad that so many will believe their lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by biblegirl View Post
    I am so glad you asked about this. The Catholic church has been running an ad during 'The Bible' miniseries where they claim they wrote the Bible. I find that claim extremely blasphemous. God wrote the Bible, not the Catholic Church. Most of us have had to deal with a coworker who likes to take the credit for someone else's work. The Catholic church is doing the same thing- they're just bold enough to try to take credit for God's work. The Catholic church did not write the Bible; they did try to hijack and obscure it. Given their history, how hypocritical they are to now claim it is their gift to us! I guess it goes back to the old notion, if you're going to tell a lie, tell a bold lie. How sad that so many will believe their lie.

    Let's face the facts, if the rcc had written The Bible they wouldn't have superseded it with their blasphemous catechism.




    My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.
    For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; the flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; the fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.


    Baruch haba b'Shem Yahweh!!


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