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Thread: Some teach that Pre-tribbers are misleading us

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime View Post
    Could be just the 144,000. Could be more.

    Noah and his family had to repopulate the earth after the flood. So I wouldn't use 144,000 is too low a number as a way on debunking it.
    Who do you think are the Lord's "brethren" in the sheep and goat judgment of Matthew 25?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shonsu View Post
    Who do you think are the Lord's "brethren" in the sheep and goat judgment of Matthew 25?
    Are you going to make a point?

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime View Post
    Are you going to make a point?
    I need to understand your position on this first.

  4. #124
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    This might help -

    https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bib...here-and-when/

    Who Goes Where And When?





    Q. I recently read your article about the pre trib rapture in which you seemed to indicate that all the people with the exception of Israel will either be destroyed or cast off the earth after the rapture. Perhaps I read it wrong. If not what about the tribulation saints?

    A. Here’s how it will work. The Church will be raptured before the end times judgments begin and will go to live in the New Jerusalem (1 Thes. 4:16-17. John 14:3, Rev. 21:27).
    All people who become believers after the rapture but die before the Lord returns will be resurrected at the time of the 2nd Coming along with believing Jews of Old Testament times (Daniel 12:1-2, Rev. 20:4).
    Believers who survive the Great Tribulation will go into the Millennium in their natural states and will repopulate Planet Earth (Matt. 25:34). Jews will go to Israel, while Gentiles will go to the nations. All surviving unbelievers will be taken off the planet just after the 2nd Coming (Matt. 25:41).
    The remaining unbelievers from all ages will be resurrected at the end of the Millennium to face the Great White Throne judgment (Rev. 20:11-15).


    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve53 View Post
    This might help -


    That's the point I'm trying to make from the scriptures and the reason I asked who the "brethren" of the Lord are. Once that is established then it is clear that the sheep are believing Gentiles.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve53 View Post
    This might help -
    Thanks Steve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shonsu View Post


    That's the point I'm trying to make from the scriptures and the reason I asked who the "brethren" of the Lord are. Once that is established then it is clear that the sheep are believing Gentiles.
    So better to play games than straight out explain something? You knew what point you were going to make so make it.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime View Post
    Thanks Steve.



    So better to play games than straight out explain something? You knew what point you were going to make so make it.

    I wanted to find your point of view first. What's wrong with that? I wasn't playing games but trying to get you to explain your position according to the scriptures I had already mentioned.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime View Post
    Thanks Steve.

    So better to play games than straight out explain something? You knew what point you were going to make so make it.
    It is better if you come to the conclusion through your own reasoning. Rather than him spoon feed it to you, if you come to the conclusion your own self, by way of scriptural evidence presented, you will also begin to see some of the other issues that are affected by the conclusion. It is the same way it was presented to me, although I am still working through some of those related issues.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
    It is better if you come to the conclusion through your own reasoning. Rather than him spoon feed it to you, if you come to the conclusion your own self, by way of scriptural evidence presented, you will also begin to see some of the other issues that are affected by the conclusion. It is the same way it was presented to me, although I am still working through some of those related issues.
    Exactly. That is how our Lord taught as well. By asking pointed questions He got His disciples to think. That's all I was trying to do.

  10. #130
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    I always understood that the sheep are both Jew & gentile. Did a study a while ago based on a verse in Ezekiel, I think, where I was surprised to learn some of the goats are also Jews, but then learnt there is both geographical Jews as well as spritual Jews.
    For Thou art my hope, Oh Lord God Psalm 71:5
    Being confident of this very thing, that He who hath begun a good work in you, will perform it to the day of the Lord Philippians 1:6


    MY TABLET CANNOT TYPE OR SPELL

  11. #131
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    [QUOTE=so-blessed;2624270]I always understood that the sheep are both Jew & gentile. Did a study a while ago based on a verse in Ezekiel, I think, where I was surprised to learn some of the goats are also Jews, but then learnt there is both geographical Jews as well as spritual Jews.[]


    I have not heard the term "geographical Jew" before. What exactly does this mean---as compared to spiritual Jews? Perhaps this is a dumb question. If I were differentiating Jews it would be between Blood and Spiritual Jews---like my cousin who became Jewish so as to marry a Jewish girl. Does it have a significant meaning with regards to the old Testament? I mean I know the Land was promised to the Jews but never heard about "geographical Jews". Thanks.

  12. #132
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    Just the way our bible teacher spoke about Jews who are simply born in Israel vs Spiritual Jews. I don't think his was the best terminology, but he'd made the point once to someone about how not all Israel are Israel (ie not all Jews will be saved Jews) & after a lot of explaining he had to always call them geographical Jews as that was the only way the perso could grasp the idea, blood made it too complicated for them. So it kinda stuck with us after that.
    For Thou art my hope, Oh Lord God Psalm 71:5
    Being confident of this very thing, that He who hath begun a good work in you, will perform it to the day of the Lord Philippians 1:6


    MY TABLET CANNOT TYPE OR SPELL

  13. #133
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    Non-spiritual Jews would be a better term, I would think. I know many Jews who claim to be atheists or agnostics. They have no faith in God at all. They don't believe in the promised messiah. And, yet, they still attend the high holy days!! I can't understand why. If they don't believe in God, who are they "atoning" to? And, why? I also have a friend who grew up attending church who now brags about being an atheist to anyone who will listen.........but, she still contends that she is going to heaven because she is a good person. How can she go to heaven when she doesn't believe in God? She can't answer that question..... But, geographical Jews does cover it, I guess. They are there in the land, but they have no hope past that.

  14. #134
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    Secular Jews maybe? The thing is, it's not geographical because I could move to Israel and not be a Jew by race nor as a follower of Judaism so it can't be based on Israeli geographical location. Bottom line, God knows hearts / saved Messianic Jews living anywhere, and unsaved Jews that don't currently (before Tribulation) believe Jesus is the Messiah yet live in Israel.
    Toots

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