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Thread: Some teach that Pre-tribbers are misleading us

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo477 View Post
    Baxter on TBN said he was opening a prophecy school in Jerusalem to train people to fight the AC and evangelize during the trib.
    Wait - Baxter? Irwin Baxter?!

    Just waiting for TBN shows starring Rick Warren, Nostradamus and a goat.
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


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    Quote Originally Posted by iSong6:3 View Post
    Wait - Baxter? Irwin Baxter?!

    Just waiting for TBN shows starring Rick Warren, Nostradamus and a goat.
    heh.

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    I Song6:3 that is the way I remember it. He is appearing on many Christian channels now and many times a week. Crouch has had him on several times debating post and pre trib. The first had Lahaye and he offered no rebuttal. Next was Perry Stone and he tried to defend pre trib, he was red faced and wouldn't call some of Baxters statements misled. Next Bill Salus was on and he was annointed. Baxter was puff up like a bull frog and had no reply to a concise rebuttal of the post trib viewpoint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronbo477 View Post
    puff up like a bull frog


    I wonder why the programs have him on if he can't defend his beliefs. Ah well, it's better for him to keep his mouth shut than to teach his confusions and errors.

    Thanks for the further info!
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


    Jesus + something = nothing

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    The post-tribbers accuse us of "misleading" people, when, in fact, Jesus said, "Comfort one another with these things".
    1 Thessalonians 5:4 (New International Version)

    4But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eskobar View Post
    Some, if not most, post raptuarist´s argues that the second coming is a one-time event that will bee seen by all people on earth.
    They are perfectly free to do so.What I dont understand is that some of them accuses their fellow pre-trib brothers to mislead other christians so that they will be caught off-guard when the antichrist enters the stage. Or even worse: Accuse them of apostacy. To those I can only say:
    The charge of apostacy is NOT a small matter to the Christ.

    This reasoning, that pre-tribulators mislead, must be one of the most absurd Í´ve ever heard. First of all: Pre tribulators have written extensive material on the antichrist subject, his characteristics and world- events related to him.
    Secondly, I see far more danger in the post-trib view in that when christians think that there will be many world events to come before the rapture
    they might say" well its a long time left, let the good times roll before the tribulation. When in it, we can get our acts together".

    To me, this thinking is the real danger to christians in our times. IF there were to be a post-trib rapture instead of a pre-one, every christian will have what they need, a Bible, their fellow brothers and of course our heavenly Father to rely on.
    What ever comes our way,we should stay focused together, united in Jesus Christ, despite the diffrences in this matter!
    Post-trib and pre-trib are both wrong. Just as Noah and Lot were spared from God's wrath, so shall we be. Be prepared to die and be sheep as the time will come when God will separate us from the goats through tribulation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve93138 View Post
    Post-trib and pre-trib are both wrong. Just as Noah and Lot were spared from God's wrath, so shall we be. Be prepared to die and be sheep as the time will come when God will separate us from the goats through tribulation.
    Not too clear what you're saying here. Can you please expand on it?
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


    Jesus + something = nothing

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve93138 View Post
    Post-trib and pre-trib are both wrong. Just as Noah and Lot were spared from God's wrath, so shall we be. Be prepared to die and be sheep as the time will come when God will separate us from the goats through tribulation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve93138 View Post
    Post-trib and pre-trib are both wrong. Just as Noah and Lot were spared from God's wrath, so shall we be. Be prepared to die and be sheep as the time will come when God will separate us from the goats through tribulation.
    Got me a little confused too.

    The first part - minus the strike through -
    Quote Originally Posted by steve93138 View Post
    Post-trib and pre-trib are both wrong. Just as Noah and Lot were spared from God's wrath, so shall we be.
    - - couldn't agree more.

    The second part -
    Quote Originally Posted by steve93138 View Post
    Be prepared to die and be sheep as the time will come when God will separate us from the goats through tribulation.
    - were you being facetious and "quoting" a mock post-tribber?

    And the part I struck through - If the post and pre positions are both wrong what do you think is the correct view? A mid rapture? No rapture? Please clarify for us.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



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    Quote Originally Posted by steve93138 View Post
    Post-trib and pre-trib are both wrong. Just as Noah and Lot were spared from God's wrath, so shall we be. Be prepared to die and be sheep as the time will come when God will separate us from the goats through tribulation.
    hmmn...

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    It's been said before, but worth repeating: God should just give everyone the rapture they desire. One thing that post-tribbers seem to so easily forget is that the church, right now, is very heavily persecuted. More Christians have given their life for Christ in the last 100 years than the previous 2000 combined. If it is persecution and ultimately martyrdom they seek, they need only go to the closest communist or islamist country. Fortunately a person's views on the end times are not factored into his or her rapture status. I'm sure they'll be very glad to be wrong about this one.
    Ephesians 3:17-18
    That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

    "It is by faith alone we are saved, but not by faith which is alone."

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve93138 View Post
    Post-trib and pre-trib are both wrong. Just as Noah and Lot were spared from God's wrath, so shall we be. Be prepared to die and be sheep as the time will come when God will separate us from the goats through tribulation.
    Who is it that controls the first half of the trib directly? Here's a hint: God. God will not crucify His Son twice, nor is Jesus a wife beater. You seem to be on a similar path as Moses; he struck the rock twice, and look what happened to him.

    Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

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    It's been said before, but worth repeating: God should just give everyone the rapture they desire. One thing that post-tribbers seem to so easily forget is that the church, right now, is very heavily persecuted. More Christians have given their life for Christ in the last 100 years than the previous 2000 combined. If it is persecution and ultimately martyrdom they seek, they need only go to the closest communist or islamist country. Fortunately a person's views on the end times are not factored into his or her rapture status. I'm sure they'll be very glad to be wrong about this one.
    Should God give me besides the timing of the rapture whatever I want? There is such a thing as a "rapture status?" I am puzzled as to where the Biblical line of thought is going on this thread.

    The church has always been persecuted. The church however is comprised of those who have made a choice: to repent, receive salvation, and spread the the news that there is a way out of all of this, and that yes, spread the Good News that He is coming back and he gave plenty of warnings of what was going to happen. There is in reality is no such thing as a "person's views" when considering the Second Coming. This is not at all about a "multiple choice answer to the question" view when concerning the Rapture. There is only one answer to the rationale, and Jesus was very clear about that in Matthew 24. There will be a "sealing away" before the prophetic week starts, that is why Jesus mentioned the "times of Noah" would be like "times of the Son of Man" when concerning end time prophecy. There is a direct correlation between the two events.

    Maybe the problem is with those who believe in other views other than pre-tribulation also the inability to believe there was also a flood at one time. Maybe it is a mindset that is going on that "once persecuted, always persecuted, and will continue to be persecuted." Maybe the problem does reside in the question of repentance and salvation for those who choose to embrace views outside of pre-tribulation. I am here because of a message of repentance, salvation, biblical teaching that He is coming, to spread the Good News to others and to "Watch".

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    My BIL follows a guy named Paul Bortolazzo...he has written a series of books. He is a pusher of the 6th seal rapture but the thing that disturbs me the most about this guy. my BIL is always posting his "quotes" on facebook all the time. Just like Rick Joyner (NAR false prophet) claims that the pre-trib teaching is a doctrine of demons and the pastors that teach this are doing the devils work. He also claims that the falling away is not the rampant apostasy as we are seeing right before our eyes via the massively growing emergent, seeker senstive, purpose driven, false lying signs and wonder and lying prophets and apostles trying to pass itself off as christianity---but the "falling away" is caused by those believing the pre-trib rapture are going to fall away from the faith and lose their salvation and take the mark of the beast. He literally teaches you that true born again beleivers can and will lose their salvation and will spent eternity in hell because they will take the mark. and don't dare disagree with Paul Bortolazzo, there is no reasoning from the scriptures with him... either you believe his views 100% or you are of the devil. they are all crawling out of the woodwork. anybody else come across this guy??

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by iSong6:3 View Post
    Wait - Baxter? Irwin Baxter?!

    Just waiting for TBN shows starring Rick Warren, Nostradamus and a goat.
    Oh no!! Not them again!!
    Psalm 30:11-12 (New King James Version)

    11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;
    You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,
    12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to You and not be silent.
    O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.



    Pre-Flood!
    Thanks for the citizen title Hoot!

  16. #36
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    The Antichrist will be a "poser":Matthew 24:5, For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    1 John 2:18, Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

    THE Antichrist will appear as a "Lamb":
    Daniel 8:25, 25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

    He will "prove" himself by working "miracles", 2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders

    The Tribulation begins when THE antichrist signs a 7 year peace treaty with Israel. Daniel 9:27 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    Before THE Antichrist can even begin to carry out his evil plans, The Restrainer must be removed. The only One who can restrain evil is God (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) The Holy Spirit lives inside all born again believers. We must be taken out of the way, or THE Antichrist will be unable to have free reign upon the earth. People can still be saved during the trib, but that is a different discussion.

    If you study these Scriptures carefully, it should become clear that post-tribbers, or pre-wrath-ers would be in more danger of accepting THE Antichrist than pre-tribbers.

    The only way I will know the REAL Jesus is when I am instantly "changed" and I meet Him in the clouds. All born again believers, no matter what they think will happen, or which rapture belief they hold, will be changed, and caught up to meet Jesus before the Tribulation begins, end of story. The Scriptures make it clear.

    Come soon Lord Jesus!
    I stand with Israel, now and forever.
    Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve53 View Post
    Got me a little confused too.

    The first part - minus the strike through - - - couldn't agree more.

    The second part - - were you being facetious and "quoting" a mock post-tribber?

    And the part I struck through - If the post and pre positions are both wrong what do you think is the correct view? A mid rapture? No rapture? Please clarify for us.
    There is tribulation and there is wrath. They are two different things. I want to believe in a pre-trib view and did for many years, but after looking into this further, I'm not so sure. I know Jesus won't beat his bride, but he wouldn't be doing that if there is tribulation - that would be the world beating the bride. God will take us away and then begin the outpouring of his wrath. Pre-wrath is what I'm getting at and I know this is a pre-trib board so I will probably have to go into that other forum here to discuss it... Pre-wrath is a hard pill to swallow and if this view turns out to be incorrect, then Amen, rescue me from man's tribulation.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve93138 View Post
    There is tribulation and there is wrath. They are two different things. I want to believe in a pre-trib view and did for many years, but after looking into this further, I'm not so sure. I know Jesus won't beat his bride, but he wouldn't be doing that if there is tribulation - that would be the world beating the bride. God will take us away and then begin the outpouring of his wrath. Pre-wrath is what I'm getting at and I know this is a pre-trib board so I will probably have to go into that other forum here to discuss it... Pre-wrath is a hard pill to swallow and if this view turns out to be incorrect, then Amen, rescue me from man's tribulation.
    No, it isn't the trib of man, read Revelation, Who is directly controlling the events of the first 3 1/2 years? It's God, not man. Further, the rapture is an imminent event, pre-wrath would be predictable.

    Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve93138 View Post
    Pre-wrath is what I'm getting at and I know this is a pre-trib board so I will probably have to go into that other forum here to discuss it... Pre-wrath is a hard pill to swallow and if this view turns out to be incorrect, then Amen, rescue me from man's tribulation.
    Mid-trib/pre-wrath are both the same thing and both are incorrect. The topic has been covered exhaustively here and the simple facts are that there is no other view that makes sense in keeping with a literal reading of scripture.

    “When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.” Dr. David L. Cooper
    1 Thes. 4:16-17, Romans 5:9, 1 Thes. 1:10, 1 Thes. 5:9, John 14:2-3

    How so do you read the above verses?
    Last edited by Steve53; September 22nd, 2013 at 09:01 PM.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  20. #40
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    Doh!

    It's like the post tribbers ears are closed.

    Because there is "One Thing" they cannot reconcile.

    Here it is: Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    If we are Raptured at the end of the Tribulation there would be no one left who could repopulate Earth during the Millenium.

    John 13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.Matthew 5:23-24 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

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