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Thread: SBN - Son Life Broadcasting/the Swaggarts *MERGED*

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cindy S. View Post
    I just know I am blessed by the study of Daniel and the fact that he has a panel of other men with him, it's not just his interpretation.
    I'm sure JS's biblical understanding is fine for the most part but the book "Jimmy Swaggart Bible Commentary -- Daniel" is his interpretation. In fact, his notes in red are often longer than the scripture it attempts to clarify.

    As for the panel of men with him, the Swaggarts are known to not allow challenges or correction to their teachings. Since Bob Cornell, Jim Woolsey, and Dave Smith are all employed by SonLife they are probably there to validate the study. I don't mean to pick on JS or his admirers but as Bereans it's important to test all things​ so others who follow won't stumble.

  2. #142
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    Default Jimmy Swaggart Ministry

    * Mods: If this is in the wrong place, please move it. TKS

    I was over at my mom's house the other day and she was watching the jimmy swaggart ministry show while I was in the kitchen prepping her meal. As I was listening they kept talking (yelling) about the Cross. It was "The Cross this, the Cross that". I know that everything Christ did for us lead up to the cross. This is where our sins were paid etc. I'm a firm believer and all but something wasn't settling right from within. Some of the stuff they were saying was good, but something seemed to be off. Like it was too much of the cross, if that were possible! Something was missing.... I felt like a red flag was going off....

    My question is this; Am I missing something here? Am I being too cautious or looking too much into it? Just wondering?....
    See you on the Battlefield,


  3. #143
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    IMHO opinion it seems there's a lot being placed on a symbol as opposed to the act itself.

    Part of the Gospel is indeed the life of and the crusifiction of Jesus. But it's also the death and resurrection of Jesus as well.

    1 Corinthians 15 1-4

    To me would depend on a lot of other things he said before I might write him off.

  4. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalvert View Post
    * Mods: If this is in the wrong place, please move it. TKS

    I was over at my mom's house the other day and she was watching the jimmy swaggart ministry show while I was in the kitchen prepping her meal. As I was listening they kept talking (yelling) about the Cross. It was "The Cross this, the Cross that". I know that everything Christ did for us lead up to the cross. This is where our sins were paid etc. I'm a firm believer and all but something wasn't settling right from within. Some of the stuff they were saying was good, but something seemed to be off. Like it was too much of the cross, if that were possible! Something was missing.... I felt like a red flag was going off....

    My question is this; Am I missing something here? Am I being too cautious or looking too much into it? Just wondering?....
    I originally questioned his doctrine as well, but the more I looked into it the more I found he was right. Swaggart's position is the same as Watchman Nee. They believe that just like salvation is only found in Christ's sacrifice on the cross and by placing our faith in Christ, our daily walk in regards to sanctification is to be grounded in Christ and His sacrifice. In other words, victory over the sin nature, the world, the flesh, and the devil are found in Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

    I hope this helps.

  5. #145
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    I've watched Swaggart in the past, and he always insists that what they are referring to is NOT the cross itself, but what Jesus did there.

    They have some sound teachings, but they also have some teachings that are dangerous, such as conditional security. They also believe that if a person willingly repeats a certain sin over and over, he won't be saved. Of course we know there's no such thing as a perfect church, but these are things to be wary of.

    His son Donnie is quite defensive and gets cocky at times.

    I would be VERY careful with them.
    love in Christ Jesus & prayers,
    Lynda

    I am ready to go!!!

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by sing4theLord View Post
    I've watched Swaggart in the past, and he always insists that what they are referring to is NOT the cross itself, but what Jesus did there.

    They have some sound teachings, but they also have some teachings that are dangerous, such as conditional security. They also believe that if a person willingly repeats a certain sin over and over, he won't be saved. Of course we know there's no such thing as a perfect church, but these are things to be wary of.

    His son Donnie is quite defensive and gets cocky at times.

    I would be VERY careful with them.
    I tend to agree with your assessment of Jimmy Swaggart ministries. I think his frequent references to "the cross" are references to the work of Christ there, not the cross itself. He also is very emphatic about the thoroughness of Christ's payment, that it covered all of our sin. He usually does a marvelous job with this, but then he may insist that the believer speak in 'tongues', or, that salvation can be forfeited by the believer. I'm not a frequent listener of his radio program but when I have listened, I have been thrilled at times and then astounded at times. I think his theology is a dichotomy. His message seems confusing to me. Again, to be fair, I am not a regular listener, but my impression, based upon what I have heard, and been told by some of his loyal listeners turns me away from recommending him. Just my thoughts...

  7. #147
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    Oh I agree, absolutely. They seem to contradict themselves at times, preaching in one sermon how Christ's death paid for all our sins, past present and future, but then they will preach in another how you can lose your salvation and that you have to "persevere until the end". We don't have to "persevere", Christ did it for us! So therefore we *are* overcomers and nothing - not even if you commit the same sins willfully or not over and over again - can snatch you out of the Father's hand.

    I'm not saying it's ok to willfully sin, but the Father knows what we will do. Swaggart makes it sound like God is saying "uh-uh-uh...bad boy/girl...now I'm going to take your salvation away." What kind of loving, understanding God would He be? Even Donnie himself has made (joking?) statements like, "I'm just gonna go ahead and say it, I can repent later" and then make a slanderous or rude comment about someone or some place, etc. Isn't that willful sin? And if he keeps doing it over and over, then won't he lose his salvation (according to the way he thinks)? They make you wonder.
    love in Christ Jesus & prayers,
    Lynda

    I am ready to go!!!

  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthteller7 View Post
    I originally questioned his doctrine as well, but the more I looked into it the more I found he was right. Swaggart's position is the same as Watchman Nee. They believe that just like salvation is only found in Christ's sacrifice on the cross and by placing our faith in Christ, our daily walk in regards to sanctification is to be grounded in Christ and His sacrifice. In other words, victory over the sin nature, the world, the flesh, and the devil are found in Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

    I hope this helps.
    Does Watchman Nee teach that we can reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime? The only other time that I've heard Watchman Nee mentioned in a Bible discussion forum was when someone was teaching sinless perfection and the person who disagreed with them kept accusing them of following the teachings of Watchman Nee.

  9. #149
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    Hello? Where is everyone?

  10. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mailmandan View Post
    Does Watchman Nee teach that we can reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime? The only other time that I've heard Watchman Nee mentioned in a Bible discussion forum was when someone was teaching sinless perfection and the person who disagreed with them kept accusing them of following the teachings of Watchman Nee.
    Neither Swaggart or Nee, believe in sinless perfection. People that argue so take their statements out of context. They simply believe that the sin nature, the world, the flesh, the devil, and really all aspects of the Christian's life comes from the finished work of Christ. They believe that just as salvation is accomplished through the cross that our sanctification comes through the cross and the sacrifice that was Christ. We need not trust in anything else such as our own ability or our works because Christ gave us everything and gave us total victory.

    We don't need to try to gain victory in our lives over sin because Christ gave us victory over every stronghold by dying on the cross. This is reflected in the book of Romans in chapters 7 and 8 and the book of Ephesians.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthteller7 View Post
    Neither Swaggart or Nee, believe in sinless perfection. People that argue so take their statements out of context. They simply believe that the sin nature, the world, the flesh, the devil, and really all aspects of the Christian's life comes from the finished work of Christ. They believe that just as salvation is accomplished through the cross that our sanctification comes through the cross and the sacrifice that was Christ. We need not trust in anything else such as our own ability or our works because Christ gave us everything and gave us total victory.

    We don't need to try to gain victory in our lives over sin because Christ gave us victory over every stronghold by dying on the cross. This is reflected in the book of Romans in chapters 7 and 8 and the book of Ephesians.
    Thank you for your response.

  12. #152
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    There's a thread on Swaggart here: http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?1635...light=swaggart

    ETA: This post especially highlights the issues: http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?1635...61#post2209561

  13. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbT View Post
    I'm sure JS's biblical understanding is fine for the most part but the book "Jimmy Swaggart Bible Commentary -- Daniel" is his interpretation. In fact, his notes in red are often longer than the scripture it attempts to clarify.

    As for the panel of men with him, the Swaggarts are known to not allow challenges or correction to their teachings. Since Bob Cornell, Jim Woolsey, and Dave Smith are all employed by SonLife they are probably there to validate the study. I don't mean to pick on JS or his admirers but as Bereans it's important to test all things​ so others who follow won't stumble.
    If you've ever watched Study in the Word or Message of the Cross, you'd see the panel challenges each other and that they make each other back up their claims with Scripture.

    I find Swaggart's teaching to be the best there is today. He is one of the few that points to the cross not just for salvation but for sanctification.

  14. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mailmandan View Post
    Thank you for your response.
    You're welcome.

    Personally, I find Swaggart's ministry to be the best ministry there is (and yes, I know about the past scandals). However, I feel he's a changed man. Like David he fell, but called out to God for help. The Message of the Cross is the best Bible study program on the air.

    Never before have I understood the Bible like I do now. I have learned that Christ has broken the bondages of sin and because of the Holy Spirit's influence I do not have to be ruled by sin. Christ was victorious over every principality of darkness and through Him I have also been set free.

    I have learned that our works cannot make us holy and we are to depend on Christ alone.

    And really, it's not just a "Swaggart's thing". Almost all of the preachers of old preached the same doctrine. Jessie Penn-Lewis and Watchman Nee also preached the same message.

  15. #155
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    Thanks for everyone's input. Very helpful.
    See you on the Battlefield,


  16. #156
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    Default Jimmy Swaggart Ministry

    Quote Originally Posted by jcalvert View Post
    * Mods: If this is in the wrong place, please move it. TKS

    I was over at my mom's house the other day and she was watching the jimmy swaggart ministry show while I was in the kitchen prepping her meal. As I was listening they kept talking (yelling) about the Cross. It was "The Cross this, the Cross that". I know that everything Christ did for us lead up to the cross. This is where our sins were paid etc. I'm a firm believer and all but something wasn't settling right from within. Some of the stuff they were saying was good, but something seemed to be off. Like it was too much of the cross, if that were possible! Something was missing.... I felt like a red flag was going off....

    My question is this; Am I missing something here? Am I being too cautious or looking too much into it? Just wondering?....
    I hope this is right place to reply. I was following their teachings from 10:00 - 12:00 for about year and half. I am pretty sure they mean well as far as the Cross goes. However, the problem I have is the program makes me feel as if they are a Kingdom of their own. I don't mean to imply they aren't bringing the Word, but more like if we don't agree one hundred percent with them, we are wrong. I will say I have agreed with much of their teaching, but do not want to be a partner with them. We really must keep alert with all ministries. GG-68


  17. #157
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    Default SBN -Son Life Broadcasting/ the Swaggarts *MERGED*

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpmaster View Post
    I was saved in 1980 and Jimmy Swaggart was very popular back then. I watched his show, listening to his radiio program, like alot of others. Increasingly he became critical of others. He even stated that the Lord had given him a vision that his ministry was one of two great harvesters in the world (he didn't say who the other ministry was). I saw pride rise up in him and he was boasting alot.

    Then this:


    Jimmy Swaggart, Marvin Gorman, Jim and Tammy Bakker, 1986 and 1991

    Main articles: Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Bakker

    In 1986, evangelist Jimmy Swaggart began on-screen attacks against fellow televangelists Marvin Gorman and Jim Bakker. He uncovered Gorman's affair with a member of Gorman's congregation, and also helped expose Bakker's infidelity with Jessica Hahn (which was arranged by a colleague while on an out-of-state trip).[2] These exposures received widespread media coverage. Gorman retaliated in kind by hiring a private investigator to uncover Swaggart's own adulterous indiscretions with a prostitute.[3] Swaggart was subsequently forced to step down from his pulpit for a year and made a tearful televised apology in February 1988 to his congregation, saying "I have sinned against you, my Lord, and I would ask that your precious blood would wash and cleanse every stain until it is in the seas of God's forgiveness."[4][5]

    Swaggart was caught again by California police three years later in 1991 with another prostitute, Rosemary Garcia, who was riding with him in his car when he was stopped for driving on the wrong side of the road. When asked why she was with Swaggart, she replied, "He asked me for sex. I mean, that's why he stopped me. That's what I do. I'm a prostitute."[6]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...cal_Christians

    I liked Marvin Gorman, too. I was saddened that he had succumbed to the lust of the flesh and the people he had hurt.

    The Bible says:


    Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again

    And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
    (Matthew 7:1-3)

    Jimmy had a beam is his own eye. I believe that passage of scripture wa fulfilled in his life.

    Just my observations/opinion.

    Jumpmaster

    I, too, was a follower at the same time the events occurred. I remember how he constantly put Jerry Lee Lewis down.
    It was a scary thing to do, IMO, knowing he could not possibly get away with the "How great I am" compared to his cousin J L Lewis. All the above did happen as written. I, too, liked Marvin Gorman, and was saddened to hear of his fall. Then revenge became the operative word. I believe it to be frightening to be in the limelight and have this exposure. I will say I did not attend anymore crusades nor care to watch him again. I do recall the day vividly, he
    stood in front of the camera and 'wept, Forgive me for I have sinned.' It was a sad day. The surprise came after
    the 2nd time he was caught, to find he actually was back on TV. I don't watch him. I do admire Frances & Friends program and put myself in her shoes. We can't help our memory goes back to those events and wonder what that must have done to her as a Pastors wife. But it does appear she has more or less come a long, long way and holding that Ministry together. May I throw this in and will quit. I have had my issues with Donnie and his sarcasm too. But, once again, my mind goes back to this topic we started with, and ask myself, what damage did that do to Donnie. I wonder if he feels the impact of his fathers past. Donnie is 60 yrs. old. But, that does not mean there isn't a hurting boy inside him and it comes out through his attitude. Not only that Donnie was traveling as evangelist as of last year. He did say he was getting to the point of being very tired of trying to keep up at his age. I wondered to myself was it expected of him to help keep the ministry going? Or perhaps it simply was for his own income. Nevertheless, he is human and we can only hope and pray he will begin to soften his heart and treat others as he would want to be treated. Remember, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Only Christ knows. God help us all where we fall short in our walk with the Lord. ~ GG-68 ~


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