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Thread: Jimmy Swaggart Ministry

  1. #1
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    Default Jimmy Swaggart Ministry

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    I was over at my mom's house the other day and she was watching the jimmy swaggart ministry show while I was in the kitchen prepping her meal. As I was listening they kept talking (yelling) about the Cross. It was "The Cross this, the Cross that". I know that everything Christ did for us lead up to the cross. This is where our sins were paid etc. I'm a firm believer and all but something wasn't settling right from within. Some of the stuff they were saying was good, but something seemed to be off. Like it was too much of the cross, if that were possible! Something was missing.... I felt like a red flag was going off....

    My question is this; Am I missing something here? Am I being too cautious or looking too much into it? Just wondering?....
    See you on the Battlefield,


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    IMHO opinion it seems there's a lot being placed on a symbol as opposed to the act itself.

    Part of the Gospel is indeed the life of and the crusifiction of Jesus. But it's also the death and resurrection of Jesus as well.

    1 Corinthians 15 1-4

    To me would depend on a lot of other things he said before I might write him off.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalvert View Post
    * Mods: If this is in the wrong place, please move it. TKS

    I was over at my mom's house the other day and she was watching the jimmy swaggart ministry show while I was in the kitchen prepping her meal. As I was listening they kept talking (yelling) about the Cross. It was "The Cross this, the Cross that". I know that everything Christ did for us lead up to the cross. This is where our sins were paid etc. I'm a firm believer and all but something wasn't settling right from within. Some of the stuff they were saying was good, but something seemed to be off. Like it was too much of the cross, if that were possible! Something was missing.... I felt like a red flag was going off....

    My question is this; Am I missing something here? Am I being too cautious or looking too much into it? Just wondering?....
    I originally questioned his doctrine as well, but the more I looked into it the more I found he was right. Swaggart's position is the same as Watchman Nee. They believe that just like salvation is only found in Christ's sacrifice on the cross and by placing our faith in Christ, our daily walk in regards to sanctification is to be grounded in Christ and His sacrifice. In other words, victory over the sin nature, the world, the flesh, and the devil are found in Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

    I hope this helps.

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    I've watched Swaggart in the past, and he always insists that what they are referring to is NOT the cross itself, but what Jesus did there.

    They have some sound teachings, but they also have some teachings that are dangerous, such as conditional security. They also believe that if a person willingly repeats a certain sin over and over, he won't be saved. Of course we know there's no such thing as a perfect church, but these are things to be wary of.

    His son Donnie is quite defensive and gets cocky at times.

    I would be VERY careful with them.
    love in Christ Jesus & prayers,
    Lynda

    I am ready to go!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sing4theLord View Post
    I've watched Swaggart in the past, and he always insists that what they are referring to is NOT the cross itself, but what Jesus did there.

    They have some sound teachings, but they also have some teachings that are dangerous, such as conditional security. They also believe that if a person willingly repeats a certain sin over and over, he won't be saved. Of course we know there's no such thing as a perfect church, but these are things to be wary of.

    His son Donnie is quite defensive and gets cocky at times.

    I would be VERY careful with them.
    I tend to agree with your assessment of Jimmy Swaggart ministries. I think his frequent references to "the cross" are references to the work of Christ there, not the cross itself. He also is very emphatic about the thoroughness of Christ's payment, that it covered all of our sin. He usually does a marvelous job with this, but then he may insist that the believer speak in 'tongues', or, that salvation can be forfeited by the believer. I'm not a frequent listener of his radio program but when I have listened, I have been thrilled at times and then astounded at times. I think his theology is a dichotomy. His message seems confusing to me. Again, to be fair, I am not a regular listener, but my impression, based upon what I have heard, and been told by some of his loyal listeners turns me away from recommending him. Just my thoughts...

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    Oh I agree, absolutely. They seem to contradict themselves at times, preaching in one sermon how Christ's death paid for all our sins, past present and future, but then they will preach in another how you can lose your salvation and that you have to "persevere until the end". We don't have to "persevere", Christ did it for us! So therefore we *are* overcomers and nothing - not even if you commit the same sins willfully or not over and over again - can snatch you out of the Father's hand.

    I'm not saying it's ok to willfully sin, but the Father knows what we will do. Swaggart makes it sound like God is saying "uh-uh-uh...bad boy/girl...now I'm going to take your salvation away." What kind of loving, understanding God would He be? Even Donnie himself has made (joking?) statements like, "I'm just gonna go ahead and say it, I can repent later" and then make a slanderous or rude comment about someone or some place, etc. Isn't that willful sin? And if he keeps doing it over and over, then won't he lose his salvation (according to the way he thinks)? They make you wonder.
    love in Christ Jesus & prayers,
    Lynda

    I am ready to go!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthteller7 View Post
    I originally questioned his doctrine as well, but the more I looked into it the more I found he was right. Swaggart's position is the same as Watchman Nee. They believe that just like salvation is only found in Christ's sacrifice on the cross and by placing our faith in Christ, our daily walk in regards to sanctification is to be grounded in Christ and His sacrifice. In other words, victory over the sin nature, the world, the flesh, and the devil are found in Christ's sacrifice on the cross.

    I hope this helps.
    Does Watchman Nee teach that we can reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime? The only other time that I've heard Watchman Nee mentioned in a Bible discussion forum was when someone was teaching sinless perfection and the person who disagreed with them kept accusing them of following the teachings of Watchman Nee.

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    Hello? Where is everyone?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mailmandan View Post
    Does Watchman Nee teach that we can reach entire sanctification/sinless perfection in this lifetime? The only other time that I've heard Watchman Nee mentioned in a Bible discussion forum was when someone was teaching sinless perfection and the person who disagreed with them kept accusing them of following the teachings of Watchman Nee.
    Neither Swaggart or Nee, believe in sinless perfection. People that argue so take their statements out of context. They simply believe that the sin nature, the world, the flesh, the devil, and really all aspects of the Christian's life comes from the finished work of Christ. They believe that just as salvation is accomplished through the cross that our sanctification comes through the cross and the sacrifice that was Christ. We need not trust in anything else such as our own ability or our works because Christ gave us everything and gave us total victory.

    We don't need to try to gain victory in our lives over sin because Christ gave us victory over every stronghold by dying on the cross. This is reflected in the book of Romans in chapters 7 and 8 and the book of Ephesians.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truthteller7 View Post
    Neither Swaggart or Nee, believe in sinless perfection. People that argue so take their statements out of context. They simply believe that the sin nature, the world, the flesh, the devil, and really all aspects of the Christian's life comes from the finished work of Christ. They believe that just as salvation is accomplished through the cross that our sanctification comes through the cross and the sacrifice that was Christ. We need not trust in anything else such as our own ability or our works because Christ gave us everything and gave us total victory.

    We don't need to try to gain victory in our lives over sin because Christ gave us victory over every stronghold by dying on the cross. This is reflected in the book of Romans in chapters 7 and 8 and the book of Ephesians.
    Thank you for your response.

  11. #11
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    There's a thread on Swaggart here: http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?1635...light=swaggart

    ETA: This post especially highlights the issues: http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?1635...61#post2209561

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mailmandan View Post
    Thank you for your response.
    You're welcome.

    Personally, I find Swaggart's ministry to be the best ministry there is (and yes, I know about the past scandals). However, I feel he's a changed man. Like David he fell, but called out to God for help. The Message of the Cross is the best Bible study program on the air.

    Never before have I understood the Bible like I do now. I have learned that Christ has broken the bondages of sin and because of the Holy Spirit's influence I do not have to be ruled by sin. Christ was victorious over every principality of darkness and through Him I have also been set free.

    I have learned that our works cannot make us holy and we are to depend on Christ alone.

    And really, it's not just a "Swaggart's thing". Almost all of the preachers of old preached the same doctrine. Jessie Penn-Lewis and Watchman Nee also preached the same message.

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