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Thread: Ok so what's all this talk about September...

  1. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloved View Post
    I thought that there were certain parts out of order... For example, the Two Witnesses come before the judgments, but I'm in the book information about them comes after the first through sixth Trumpet Judgements. Therefore, is it plausible that Rev. 12 is before the Tribulation?
    No. Parts of Revelation are paranthetical, but the order of the events of Daniel's 70 week are chronological. The ministry of the Two Witnesses overlaps the first and second halves of the Tribulation and they come on the scene before the 7th Trumpet is blown, so the judgments are well under way.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloved View Post
    I thought that there were certain parts out of order... For example, the Two Witnesses come before the judgments, but I'm in the book information about them comes after the first through sixth Trumpet Judgements. Therefore, is it plausible that Rev. 12 is before the Tribulation?

  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by USCG_Vet View Post

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  4. #324

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    Something still bothers me about Rev 12. First off, I do not believe this has anything to do with the timing of the rapture. But I'm not convinced that chapter 12 is an overview of the past. What bothers me with the current interpretation is that no one seems to explain why the description of the dragon that is standing before the women parallels that of the one world government. If I'm following the chronological order, the dragon (including the one world government, which is a future event) figuratively speaking; standing before the woman ( Israel / Mary) to devour the male child (Jesus Christ). That world government to come was not in the past, if that makes any sense.

    If I understand the current interpretation correct;

    Rev 12:1* And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:*(a past event? Josephs dream?)
    Rev 12:2* And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.*(Past event, Mary being pregnant with Jesus Christ?)
    Rev 12:3* And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.*(No one seems to address this verse. If 12:1 to 12:5 is an overview of the past, why would John provide a description of the dragon that matches the one world government, which is a future event? Just seems out of place if we conclude this is an overview of the past)
    Rev 12:4* And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.*(Past event, when the rebellion took place? I'm not convinced we have interpreted this verse correctly)
    Rev 12:5* And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.*(Past event, Jesus accession to heaven? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus was not caught up to heaven but exalted himself into the cloud. )
    Rev 12:6* And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.*(no disagreement that this is the remnant of Israel mid trib).

    Maybe Rev 12:1 to 12:6 is a future event that happens mid trib?

  5. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstewart2235 View Post
    Something still bothers me about Rev 12. First off, I do not believe this has anything to do with the timing of the rapture. But I'm not convinced that chapter 12 is an overview of the past. What bothers me with the current interpretation is that no one seems to explain why the description of the dragon that is standing before the women parallels that of the one world government. If I'm following the chronological order, the dragon (including the one world government, which is a future event) figuratively speaking; standing before the woman ( Israel / Mary) to devour the male child (Jesus Christ). That world government to come was not in the past, if that makes any sense.

    If I understand the current interpretation correct;

    Rev 12:1* And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:*(a past event? Josephs dream?)
    Rev 12:2* And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.*(Past event, Mary being pregnant with Jesus Christ?)
    Rev 12:3* And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.*(No one seems to address this verse. If 12:1 to 12:5 is an overview of the past, why would John provide a description of the dragon that matches the one world government, which is a future event? Just seems out of place if we conclude this is an overview of the past)
    Rev 12:4* And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.*(Past event, when the rebellion took place? I'm not convinced we have interpreted this verse correctly)
    Rev 12:5* And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.*(Past event, Jesus accession to heaven? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus was not caught up to heaven but exalted himself into the cloud. )
    Rev 12:6* And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.*(no disagreement that this is the remnant of Israel mid trib).

    Maybe Rev 12:1 to 12:6 is a future event that happens mid trib?
    Regrettably my computer is down and responding from my tablet has serious limitations.....
    In short, Revelation 12 is not a review of the past. Jesus ascended in a cloud and once out of sight, returned to Heaven.

    https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bib...ion-time-line/

    And from Jack's series on Revelation (the whole series is worth reading):
    Revelation 12

    A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. (Rev. 12:1-2)
    The fact that John identifies her as a sign means the woman’s not real but stands for something else. And the something else is Israel. We get hints of this from Genesis 37:9-10 where Joseph dreams that his family are the sun, the moon and 11 stars, he being the 12th one. And as we’ll see in a moment, this woman is about to give birth to the Messiah, which makes it impossible for her to be the church, as some insist. Jesus gave birth to the Church, not the other way around.
    Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. (Rev. 12:3-6)
    This sign begins a sweeping overview of of Satan’s rebellion against God and his hatred for men who align themselves with Him. He’s seen as the Great Dragon who led a rebellion in Heaven that resulted in 1/3 of the angelic host joining with him. He tried to destroy the Messiah, but God resurrected Him and took Him to Heaven. When they see the Abomination of Desolation, believers in Israel will heed the Messiah’s warning from Matt. 24:15 and escape into the Jordanian desert where He will have prepared a hiding place for them, while He spends 3 1/2 years getting the Earth ready for His return. This 3 1/2 years is known to us as the Great Tribulation (Matt. 24:21).
    And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. (Rev. 12:7-9)
    Satan’s on the run now. No longer allowed in heaven, he’s been cast to earth as foretold in Isaiah 14:12 and Ezekiel 28:17. Some incorrectly teach that this happened long ago, at Satan’s judgment. But as Job 1:6-7 and Rev. 12:10 below clearly show, Satan’s had access to heaven all along. He was divested of his titles and of his prominent position at his judgment, but until now he’s been allowed to come and go. And when he does, he whispers his accusations against you and me in God’s ear. Whenever I think of this, I take comfort from the fact that our Lord Jesus is whispering in God’s other ear, making intercession for us. (Romans 8:34)
    Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
    “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Christ. For the accuser of our brothers, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.
    Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.” (Rev. 12:10-12) )
    Notice that as the Lord had done in Rev. 3:10 John distinguished between those who dwell in Heaven and the Earth dwellers. It’s not just due to our different physical locations, but is an indication of the state of our hearts. For the Church in Heaven Satan’s impending defeat is greeted with rejoicing, but on Earth it’s a time of great woe because the war’s come home to them. Another hint of the pre-trib rapture.
    The Kingdom that Satan lost at his rebellion and judgment, and that he later stole back from the man to whom it had been given (Adam) has become the battleground for the most incredible contest in history. Spiritual forces on both sides line up unseen behind their human counterparts. They’ll battle to the death for control of Planet Earth. Will the usurper who has put it to the torch and sword, laying waste to the very thing he’s fighting for, finally prevail? Or will the Kinsman Redeemer, whose shed blood has legally redeemed what Adam had lost so long ago, carry the day?
    We’ll soon see, but first there’s one last troublesome detail to handle. Ever since the beginning, Satan has been trying to wipe out every trace of God’s people, for they hold the power to call forth the Redeemer.
    When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach. Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (Rev. 12:13-17)
    The phrase time, times, and half a time is a way of saying one year, two years and half a year, or 3 1/2 years. It’s the third indication of the length of the coming Great Tribulation we’ve seen. From Rev. 11:2we learned that the Gentiles will trample on the Holy City for 42 months. Then in Rev. 12:6 we saw the woman being taken care of for 1260 days. Now we see this same period of time referred to as 3 1/2 years. Many scholars believe the Lord never abandoned the 360 day calendar He instituted at the Creation. That being the case 42 months, 1260 days and 3 1/2 years are all equivalent periods of time and they all describe the Great Tribulation.
    After His rejection and death, the Lord went back to Heaven, where He had come from. He vowed to stay there until His people acknowledged their sin. He knew that things would have to get pretty rough before they’d humble themselves enough to call Him back, but that eventually they would. This was all foretold in Hosea 5:15-6:2. In the meantime, if Satan can wipe them out, there won’t be anyone left to petition Him.
    And so it’s been. Using the Romans, the Muslims, the Christians, the Spaniards, the Russians, the Germans, the Italians, the English, and now the Muslims again Satan has been obsessed with ridding the world of its Jewry. He knows that if he can accomplish this before they wake up and call on the Name of Jesus, he’s won.
    When he brings Gog and Magog in a sneak attack that will begin Daniel’s 70th Week he will almost succeed, but God will intervene and save them. Astonishingly this will turn them back to Him, although still blinded to their Messiah. Here in Rev. 12:15 Satan’s using a torrent of water, like God had used against Satan’s hybrid warriors 5000 years earlier, but the Earth cooperates with its Creator and swallows up the water. The Jews are safe once again. Furious, Satan turns on the post-Church Gentile believers, known by some as as Tribulation Saints.
    https://gracethrufaith.com/the-book-...ion-1115-1217/

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  6. #326
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    OK folks, with some reservations, the Mod team allowed this conversation to explore many different points of view and now it seems some folks won't let go of the notion that this September celestial alignment somehow heralds the rapture of the church. It does not.

    We all want the rapture to happen ASAP. It's somewhat natural to be attracted to this and that theory about the nearness of the event, so, we get it completely.

    What we're having a hard time with is understanding why some folks are attracted to the uninspired words and predictions of men when we have God's sure Word to instruct us.

    A proper reading of Revelation explains all there is to know about the celestial signs in the heavens during Daniel's 70th week and who those signs are for.

    Given the fact that the Tribulation hasn't started yet, none of those celestial events described can possibly be "the sign" of Revelation 12 because even if the rapture happened today (don't we wish!) the "sign" is years away.

    Regrettably, this thread is now closed.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  7. #327
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    This is how I see imminency. Now, before you label me an apostate, PLEASE read the article all the way through with an open mind. Having said that, here's the first one: {Mod Snip}
    Now, before you scream at me and ban me, read this too.
    {Mod Snip}
    Thank you for not attacking me because I have slightly different views!
    Last edited by Steve53; July 12th, 2017 at 01:37 PM.
    "And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
    -Joel 2: 30-32a

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloved View Post
    This is how I see imminency. Now, before you label me an apostate, PLEASE read the article all the way through with an open mind. Having said that, here's the first one: {Mod Snip}
    Now, before you scream at me and ban me, read this too.
    {Mod Snip}
    Thank you for not attacking me because I have slightly different views!
    Post moved to the thread wherein the topic has been explored and debunked.

    Please report any instance of impropriety or any other forms of rudeness.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  9. #329
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    Default Total Eclipse

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshal.../#3de6163a447b

    Total Eclipse happening August 21st. Do any of you think that this is a biblical sign of the end times? Several verses that are part of prophecy with this kind of sign in the sky.

    Joel 2:31

    "The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.

    Ezekiel 32:8

    "All the shining lights in the heavens I will darken over you And will set darkness on your land," Declares the Lord GOD.

    Amos 8:9

    "It will come about in that day," declares the Lord GOD, "That I will make the sun go down at noon And make the earth dark in broad daylight.

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by AWillow View Post
    Do any of you think that this is a biblical sign of the end times?
    Discerning Christians? No.

    The signs of Revelation are not for the pre-rapture Church. Eclipses are normal occurrences and indicative only of the fact that the moon revolves around the earth and the earth and the moon revolve around the sun which itself is traveling around the center of the Milky Way galaxy and it too is traveling through space ....

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  11. #331
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    Default 1 Samuel 2 "male child" link found for BorrowedTime!

    BorrowedTime,

    Your question:
    Was the Church around or even a concept back from Genesis to Romans?
    http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?2007...34#post2634434

    My answer:
    The answer was absolutely Yes! But it was a mystery! And it was right to look in 1 Samuel 2.
    It took me months of reading to find this link!

    -------------------------------------- OLD TESTAMENT ---------------------------------
    1 Samuel 2
    "35 Then I will raise up for Myself a faithful priest who shall do according to what is in My heart and in My mind. I will build him a sure house, and he shall walk before My anointed forever."

    The link from 1 Samuel 2 was Jeremiah 31

    Jeremiah 31
    A New Covenant
    31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

    The link between 1 Samuel 2:35 and Jeremiah 31:33 is...

    1 Samuel 2:35 in My heart ... in My mind
    Jeremiah 31:33 in their minds ... on their hearts

    Notice the Perspective changed from God's perspective talking about the singular "faithful priest" to God's perspective talking about the plural "their" as a forgiven people that belong to Him.

    Notice the Reversal of the singular heart... then... mind --vs-- minds... then... hearts plural.

    VERY MYSTERIOUS!!!! I believe this was truly a lock that has just been unlocked!

    We can easily see the correlation now:
    man child vs children
    Just like Isaiah 66:8

    So:
    Samuel is the "male child".
    Samuel is "a faithful priest" because this prophecy is actually about Samuel too.
    "a faithful priest" = "their" (plural, children) Isaiah 66:8
    "a faithful priest" = "For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
    "a faithful priest" = FORGIVEN! Which means the faithful priest was a sinner.

    Isaiah 66:8
    Who has heard such a thing?
    Who has seen such things?
    Shall the earth be made to give birth in one day?
    Or shall a nation be born at once?
    For as soon as Zion was in labor,
    She gave birth to her children.

    -----------------------------------END OLD TESTAMENT ---------------------------------
    -----------------------------------NEW TESTAMENT --------------------------------------
    Drum-Roll Please !!!!!
    .
    .
    .
    Hebrews 8



    A New Covenant
    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds[b] I will remember no more."

    Gee, This looks so familiar... I wonder what it could be... ?
    OOhhh... Paul literally copy and pasted Jeremiah 31 right into his letter to the Hebrews. (I bet Paul had to right-click on the paper to get the menu to pop-up!)

    Now why on earth would Paul do that?
    Lets go back a chapter and figure out the CONTEXT!

    NKJV Bible:

    Hebrews 7
    Topic summary:
    The King of Righteousness
    Need for a New Priesthood
    Greatness of the New Priest

    Hebrews 8
    Topic Summary:
    The New Priestly Service
    A New Covenant

    Hebrews 7-8 is talking about the new King as a new Priest...
    But Jeremiah 31 didn't mention anything about a priest...? What's going on here?
    Jeremiah wasn't directly talking about a singular priest... but Jeremiah was using a HIDDEN reference to 1 Samuel 2:35 "faithful priest" as a plural entity "their" who are forgiven by the Lord. Paul figured this mystery out! Paul understood that Jeremiah pointed back to 1 Samuel 2 for the "faithful priest" as he was talking about the Heavenly Priest!

    SCORE !!!!!

    Paul figured out that Samuel is symbolic of the Church! How do we know that? The New Covenant...

    The New Covenant as defined by Jesus Christ Himself:
    Luke 22:19-20
    And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying,
    “This cup is the new covenant in My blood
    , which is shed for you.”

    YOU are the "male child" !!!!!!

    If you believe that Jesus died on the cross as THE blood atonement for your sins ... Romans 10:9-10

  12. #332
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    I don't think Paul wrote Hebrews.

    Go back and look at each of the Epistles written by Paul (Romans through Philemon)

    First word is always Paul.

    Paul was very adamant to write his name due to forgeries.

    Hebrews does not have Paul's trademark signature.

    We are back to where we started.

    Male child is irrelevant to the Body of Christ.
    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

  13. #333

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    Quote Originally Posted by USCG_Vet View Post
    33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
    This particular passage seems to be talking about... Israel.

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    Actually, another side note. I believe that the Book of Hebrews is still in relations to the Kingdom Gospel. Israel was promised to rule over all nations and its priests would also be for the world. Christ being the Head Priest. With Christ ruling from Jerusalem.

    All these promises of the Kingdom Gospel. Made to and for Israel. Which was put on pause when they stoned Stephen.

    Remember Israel rejected

    God, the Father (when John the Baptist paved the way)

    God, the Son (when they crucified Jesus Christ)

    And God, the Holy Spirit (Stephen pleads with Israel as to why they reject the Holy Spirit).

    So Israel, respectfully, rejected God on all parts of the Godhead. At which point Jesus got ahold of Saul (who was there when they stoned Stephen) and introduced the Gospel of Grace in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

    We have been given a greater covenant in Grace. But Paul warns us in Romans to not think we have replaced Israel and their promises in any way.

    We will be harptzoed with no sign.

    Edit: and accepted put it down faster than I could write my long winded post.
    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by acceptedintheBeloved View Post
    This particular passage seems to be talking about... Israel.
    Nope... read a few verses before it... Jeremiah wrote down "31 Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant"

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    Seems interesting! I like it!
    "And I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and columns of smoke. The sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
    -Joel 2: 30-32a

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    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime View Post
    I don't think Paul wrote Hebrews.
    Go back and look at each of the Epistles written by Paul (Romans through Philemon)
    First word is always Paul.
    Paul was very adamant to write his name due to forgeries.
    Hebrews does not have Paul's trademark signature.
    We are back to where we started.
    Male child is irrelevant to the Body of Christ.
    Someone wrote Hebrews. It doesn't matter who wrote it. Someone figured out the clever link between 1 Samuel and Jeremiah.
    Whoever wrote Hebrews copied Jeremiah's New Covenant passage into Hebrews. Including the verse with the clever wording.
    Whoever wrote Hebrews was writing about the new High Priest (Jesus Christ).
    Jeremiah's passage about the new covenant didn't contain a single word about a "priest" but the writer of Hebrews used it in context with discovering who the High priest is.
    The priest context in Hebrews came from 1 Samuel using the very clever wording between the two verses to link THROUGH Jeremiah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime View Post
    Actually, another side note. I believe that the Book of Hebrews is still in relations to the Kingdom Gospel. Israel was promised to rule over all nations and its priests would also be for the world. Christ being the Head Priest. With Christ ruling from Jerusalem.

    All these promises of the Kingdom Gospel. Made to and for Israel. Which was put on pause when they stoned Stephen.

    Remember Israel rejected

    God, the Father (when John the Baptist paved the way)

    God, the Son (when they crucified Jesus Christ)

    And God, the Holy Spirit (Stephen pleads with Israel as to why they reject the Holy Spirit).

    So Israel, respectfully, rejected God on all parts of the Godhead. At which point Jesus got ahold of Saul (who was there when they stoned Stephen) and introduced the Gospel of Grace in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

    We have been given a greater covenant in Grace. But Paul warns us in Romans to not think we have replaced Israel and their promises in any way.

    We will be harptzoed with no sign.

    Edit: and accepted put it down faster than I could write my long winded post.
    1 Samuel 2 "faithful priest" singular! Context of the entire verse is also talking about the future New Jerusalem.
    Samuel, the "male child" (are you really arguing against this?) LITERALLY became a faithful priest! I mean literally!
    Jeremiah 31 PROVES that the "faithful priest" is "their" or the Church! Forgiven by God through the New Covenant!
    Since Samuel is also the "faithful priest" and the "male child", the Church is also the "faithful priest" thus, the Church is the "male child"!

    Jeremiah 31 No mention of priest, but does mention "their" plural!
    The context of the entire passage is about the New Covenant. "their" are a forgiven people.
    Jeremiah 31 is defining the receivers of the new covenant "their"! God is forgiving "their" by shedding of His blood! THIS IS THE CHURCH!
    "their" is LITERALLY the Church under the new covenant!

    Hebrews 7-8 "High Priest" singular! Context of both chapters is about the identity of the High Priest and the New Covenant. The "priest" context came from 1 Samuel 2 through Jeremiah 31. How can you argue with this? It's impossible! Jeremiah 31 didn't mention a single word for "priest". The writer of Hebrews linked through Jeremiah to gain access to the "faithful priest" in 1 Samuel so that Hebrews stayed in context of the High Priest.


    The "male child" being in 1 Samuel 1 is absolutely important or it wouldn't be in the Bible!
    And God "remembered" (Hebrew zakar) Hannah and gave her the "male child" she prayed for;

    And God "remembered" (Hebrew zakar) Noah, and EVERY LIVING THING (Noah's wife and kids), and all the live stock on that boat, during the actual flood! Genesis 8:1

    We are in the time period "as in the days of Noah"!

    Isaiah 66 The Hebrew root for the word used for "male child" (Hebrew zakar) is the same root word used for "remembered" (Hebrew zakar)

    You can disagree on this. I can see that the Word is absolutely inspired by God!

    The Bible is screaming at us! I mean SCREAMING! !!!11!!!!!one!1!!1!!

    Isaiah 66 is about the Dedication Ceremony of the Future New Jerusalem, New Kingdom, with THE King!
    I'm working on proving this!
    BOTH of the 1st and 2nd Temples had a dedication ceremony! On the Feast of Trumpets!
    This IMHO is why the Feast of Trumpets is Holy to the Lord! Still researching this. Could take me another couple of months. But I'm getting close! I'm on the trail.

    The Head:
    1st Temple dedication ceremony, on the Feast of Trumpets, was with "elders", "heads", "fathers",the "King" (Solomon), and the Ark of the Covenant! The Head!
    1 Kings 8
    And
    2 Chronicles 5-7

    The Body:
    2nd Temple dedication ceremony, on the Feast of Trumpets, was with just the "children" ... gathered together... "as one man" (man child)! No elders, no heads, no fathers, no King, and no Ark of the Covenant... Just people! The Body! the "children" ... gathered together... "as one man" (man child)!
    Ezra 3
    and
    Nehemiah Chapter 7 (the last verse) and Chapter 8

  19. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by USCG_Vet View Post
    Someone wrote Hebrews.
    You're right. Someone did. Lord knows who. But we are commanded by 2 Timothy 2:15 to rightfully divide the Word of Truth.

    Paul himself magnified his position to the Gentiles with tremendous zeal. We also know Jesus came in His earthly ministry for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, that the Body of Christ was a MYSTERY and that the temporary blinding too Israel was also a mystery.

    In Acts we distinctively see

    “Simon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:”
    **Acts‬ *15:14-16‬ *KJV‬‬
    http://bible.com/1/act.15.14-16.kjv

    This verse shows us a gap exists between the fulfillment of the Mosaic Covenant (conditional) and the Davidoc Covenant (unconditional) I.e. Kingdom Gospel.

    It doesn't matter who wrote it.
    It really does if you are trying to say it was Paul to make something forceably fit.

    Who,what,when where and why are very important.

    Someone figured out the clever link between 1 Samuel and Jeremiah.
    Whoever wrote Hebrews copied Jeremiah's New Covenant passage into Hebrews. Including the verse with the clever wording.
    There are many passage throughout Jesus' ministry where he actually quotes a book of the Old Testament. It's one of the identifying marks we have from God that he is the author of the Bible.

    Whoever wrote Hebrews was writing about the new High Priest (Jesus Christ).
    Jeremiah's passage about the new covenant didn't contain a single word about a "priest" but the writer of Hebrews used it in context with discovering who the High priest is.
    The priest context in Hebrews came from 1 Samuel using the very clever wording between the two verses to link THROUGH Jeremiah.
    The last word in Revelation is Amen. That connects Genesis all the way through Revelation so that's a mute point. We still must rightfully divide.

    1) Who was Hebrews written to?
    2) what does the word "mystery" mean?
    3) why through the Bible does God always address and treat Israel and Gentiles differently until Paul and the mystery of the Body of Christ?
    4) why does the "Rev 12 sign" HAVE to be for the Church?
    5) why are all the "birth pang" signs not enough for witnessing to non believers and we have to use Rev 12?
    6) what happens if nothing happens on that day?
    7) what happens if the rapture is before that?

    You can disagree on this. I can see that the Word is absolutely inspired by God!
    Well we can disagree true. However the last part of your sentence is disturbing. As if I somehow do not take the Bible as His Authroitive God Breathed Word?

    That statement is used in that manner by the likes of Ellen White, Joseph Smith, and Charles Russell to name a few. And they are cult leaders.

    I'm more than aware of the Hebrews and Jeremiah connection. It actually goes back further to Moses.

    "And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.”
    **Exodus‬ *34:27-28‬ *KJV‬‬
    http://bible.com/1/exo.34.27-28.kjv

    “The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.”
    **Deuteronomy‬ *5:2-3‬ *KJV‬‬
    http://bible.com/1/deu.5.2-3.kjv

    “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
    **Jeremiah‬ *31:31-34‬ *KJV‬‬
    http://bible.com/1/jer.31.31-34.kjv

    “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
    **Matthew‬ *5:17-18‬ *KJV‬‬
    http://bible.com/1/mat.5.17-18.kjv

    “Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.”
    **Hebrews‬ *8:9‬ *KJV‬‬
    http://bible.com/1/heb.8.9.kjv
    Last edited by BorrowedTime; July 25th, 2017 at 12:48 PM. Reason: Added Deuteronomy 5
    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

  20. #340
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    A. I very much love, love, love you and everyone here as brothers and sisters in Christ! <hugs> Very much love!

    B. We both KNOW that every word in all books of the Bible Genesis-Revevelation are inspired (authored) by God.

    C.
    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime
    It really does if you are trying to say it was Paul to make something forceably fit.
    Who,what,when where and why are very important.
    I'm NOT trying to forcibly say Paul penned Hebrews. That is just an assumption many people held in the past. I really don't care who penned it.
    The word "Paul" in reference to Hebrews probably didn't need to be in this discussion. So I gracefully retract using it. That was distracting.

    And it's not important who penned Hebrews.
    If it was important... then Hebrews wouldn't be missing the name of the person who penned it... But it is missing.
    So the author of Hebrews (God) must have thought it was wasn't important.
    This is a rabbit trail that has no bearing on the discussion. Moving on.

    D.
    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime
    1) Who was Hebrews written to?
    2) what does the word "mystery" mean?
    3) why through the Bible does God always address and treat Israel and Gentiles differently until Paul and the mystery of the Body of Christ?
    4) why does the "Rev 12 sign" HAVE to be for the Church?
    5) why are all the "birth pang" signs not enough for witnessing to non believers and we have to use Rev 12?
    6) what happens if nothing happens on that day?
    7) what happens if the rapture is before that?
    1) Another rabbit trail. Nobody knows. It's NOT important because the Author (God) didn't inspire the writer to pen who the actual audience was into the letter.

    2) Well... Ephesians pretty much takes care of the "mystery" (I believe this is the same "mystery" you were referring too). I don't want to quote the whole book but Paul was writing to the saints that the mystery that was revealed to him through Lord Jesus Christ:

    (My notes) on the "mystery" in Ephesians NKJV:
    "to the SAINTS who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus" (obvious the audience is the Body of Christ here)
    "He chose us in Him" (also similar wording in Jeremiah 31:33 passage quoted in Hebrews "...and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.")
    "predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself" (same as above and a hint to Isaiah 66 sons!)
    "In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins" (the New Covenant Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8)
    "having made known to us the mystery of His will" (mystery... of His will)
    "IN the DISPENSATION of the FULLNESS of the TIMES He might GATHER TOGETHER in ONE" (WHOA!!!) "ALL THINGS in CHRIST" (You just helped me on my other research on the Feast of Trumpets and the Dedication Ceremony for both 1st and 2nd Temples) Woo HOO! Thank you!
    "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance" (makes since because we are sons)
    . (Grace by Faith)
    . (Circumcision of the flesh brought close by the blood of Christ.)
    "but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God" (New Jerusalem citizen!)
    "in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit" (Interesting imagery here)

    Basically the "mystery" penned in Ephesians is what Jeremiah 31 said ... was to the saints...

    3) I don't think it started with Paul. Jesus started it. I remember one case with the Gentile woman Matthew 15:21-28. Jesus forgave the gentile woman before He died on the cross. Jesus made that decision towards the Gentile woman because of her faith. But it was also predicted in Jeremiah 31:31-32 where God took them by the hand and lead them out of Egypt but they still broke the covenant. So God made a new covenant. Jesus paid for the covenant at the cross!

    4) I didn't mention the Rev12 alignment. I've found a completely different route of discovery through the Biblical recorded Temple Dedication Ceremonies. This post is specifically about identifying the idea of the Church in the Old Testament. The Church is the "faithful priest" or the "male child".
    I'm not looking at the alignment now...! I'm looking at God's Word!

    5) You want to limit our knowledge of the Word? I always want to know and understand more of the Word!

    6) Continue to occupy until He comes! Continue to study the Word and learn new things! Continue to witness the Gospel of Jesus Christ!

    7) GREAT! SWEET! Where do you want to meet up at the Wedding Ceremony?

    "I can see that the Word is absolutely inspired by God!" This sentence came out with the wrong context from my head. I apologize for how that one was received.
    What I was thinking when I wrote it was to the links that I see written in the Word of God are Inspired. Links that I didn't imagine up, but are penned in the Word.
    Old covenant vs New covenant; head vs body; male child vs children; "faithful priest" vs "their"
    A link like this:
    1 Samuel 2:35 in My heart ... in My mind
    Jeremiah 31:33 in their minds ... on their hearts


    I'm positive the "New Covenant" appeared in the Old Testament somewhere before Jeremiah, you give potential examples of EXODUS and DEUTERONOMY. But I find this passage in Jeremiah 31 to be an important pivot point in the Word.

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