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Thread: 10 Commandments in the Age of Grace

  1. #1
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    Default 10 Commandments in the Age of Grace

    Alright guys, time to ask here cause google keeps pulling up SDA interpretations and I can't deal with that headache anymore. Study guides are welcomed and discussion as well.

    So here are my questions

    1) If Christ fulfilled the Law (Mosaic) then that should be over and done correct? (Please no red herring "giving license to sin" argument.)

    2) With verses like Galatians 5:1-4 it seems to imply a need to resist going back to the law as a "yardstick" correct?

    3) 10 commandments are they or are they not apart of the WHOLE law?

    4) Is this less confusing than I'm making it?

    I keep hearing a lot these days that if you refuse to follow the 10 commandments you are not saved (no I don't really care about their opinions regarding that) you are some disobedient heretic. The only other troubling argument is the "we love Christ so we are going to follow them!" which is why I brought up Galatians 5:1-4 and I know we here know about Acts and Peter and James not wanting to yolk Gentiles with something they couldn't even do. To me the Commandments give us great insight into the Holy Holy Holiness of God! When ever I fail at one (not that I try to) it just humbles me to think I can't even keep the basic part of it and Jesus did it fully!

    The fruit of the Spirit seems to be more of the guideline for us in the Age of the Gentiles correct? Galatians 5:22-23

    I'll leave this as it is for now as I'm sure more questions will arise.

    Thank you!
    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime View Post
    Alright guys, time to ask here cause google keeps pulling up SDA interpretations and I can't deal with that headache anymore. Study guides are welcomed and discussion as well.

    So here are my questions

    1) If Christ fulfilled the Law (Mosaic) then that should be over and done correct? (Please no red herring "giving license to sin" argument.)

    2) With verses like Galatians 5:1-4 it seems to imply a need to resist going back to the law as a "yardstick" correct?

    3) 10 commandments are they or are they not apart of the WHOLE law?

    4) Is this less confusing than I'm making it?

    I keep hearing a lot these days that if you refuse to follow the 10 commandments you are not saved (no I don't really care about their opinions regarding that) you are some disobedient heretic. The only other troubling argument is the "we love Christ so we are going to follow them!" which is why I brought up Galatians 5:1-4 and I know we here know about Acts and Peter and James not wanting to yolk Gentiles with something they couldn't even do. To me the Commandments give us great insight into the Holy Holy Holiness of God! When ever I fail at one (not that I try to) it just humbles me to think I can't even keep the basic part of it and Jesus did it fully!

    The fruit of the Spirit seems to be more of the guideline for us in the Age of the Gentiles correct? Galatians 5:22-23

    I'll leave this as it is for now as I'm sure more questions will arise.

    Thank you!
    1. Yes it's over and done with in the sense we'll never ever be able to not sin until we become fully perfected, living eternally with God. Perhaps a useful link: https://answersingenesis.org/answers...the-moral-law/
    2. Hmm not sure how to explain. I interpret these verses to mean this is the ultimate that He knows we can't achieve. But we still should strive for yet recognize we cannot, will not ever be able to do of ourselves but can someday through God.
    3. I consider the 10 Commandments part of the moral law (see link I have above). This is part of "the law" but distinct from others like the laws from Old Testament. I guess in simplest form, the 10 commandments apply to all of us in the past and currently. Some of the stuff like Jewish laws, eating kosher, wearing certain fabrics, sacrificing animals etc those were meant for the Jews and were for the past. They don't apply now because Jesus came.
    4. I dunno
    Regarding fruits of the spirit I think this is not salvation related but sanctification related. Using the gifts of God to fulfill the things He would have us do here, again, knowing we'll never attain perfection at it here on Earth.
    The way I think of it is this: you're saved by admitting we're no good (no works are enough) and never will be apart from Christ (because of grace). After salvation the rest of our life is a sllowwwww process moving towards sanctification, trying to follow the 10 commandments, showing fruit of the Holy Spirit, doing works as a show of or outgrowth of our faith but they can't save us and we'll never get an A+. Take a standardized test as example. No matter how hard you work, how good you do, you can't ever achieve 100-percentile because it's impossible to do better than 100% of the people that took the test because that includes you. But you can strive for the 99.99percentile!
    I hope I didn't make this worse
    Toots

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlessdMomUv5 View Post
    1. Yes it's over and done with in the sense we'll never ever be able to not sin until we become fully perfected, living eternally with God. Perhaps a useful link: https://answersingenesis.org/answers...the-moral-law/
    Good read thank you!

    2. Hmm not sure how to explain. I interpret these verses to mean this is the ultimate that He knows we can't achieve. But we still should strive for yet recognize we cannot, will not ever be able to do of ourselves but can someday through God.
    The part that strikes me is when he says you are a debtor to the whole of the law. Further to be continued in 3)

    3. I consider the 10 Commandments part of the moral law (see link I have above). This is part of "the law" but distinct from others like the laws from Old Testament. I guess in simplest form, the 10 commandments apply to all of us in the past and currently. Some of the stuff like Jewish laws, eating kosher, wearing certain fabrics, sacrificing animals etc those were meant for the Jews and were for the past. They don't apply now because Jesus came.
    I don't see anywhere in the Bible up to Romans where there is any distinction. Even when the Bible says Laws of Moses the 10 Commandments get quoted. Deuteronomy 5 really seems to make no separation between moral vs ceremonial.

    So if the 10 commandments are apart of Mosaic Law they would be left in the past where Christ had fulfilled them. Now Paul goes on to write about not breaking 9 out of 10 of them (clearly he has no issues with Sabbath breaking vs keeping) but it seems as they are apart of the Laws of Christ not Mosaic. But there is no doubt that Paul wrote about Mosaic as a curse, bondage, slavery and that Christ nailed them all to the Cross.

    So best way without full circling this, Mosaic Law, then Christ died, new covenant new rules. The common thing SDA's/Lordship spout out is "we keep the commandments cause we love Jesus" even though Christ has died and come.


    4. I dunno
    Neither do I :-P

    Regarding fruits of the spirit I think this is not salvation related but sanctification related. Using the gifts of God to fulfill the things He would have us do here, again, knowing we'll never attain perfection at it here on Earth.
    The way I think of it is this: you're saved by admitting we're no good (no works are enough) and never will be apart from Christ (because of grace). After salvation the rest of our life is a sllowwwww process moving towards sanctification, trying to follow the 10 commandments, showing fruit of the Holy Spirit, doing works as a show of or outgrowth of our faith but they can't save us and we'll never get an A+. Take a standardized test as example. No matter how hard you work, how good you do, you can't ever achieve 100-percentile because it's impossible to do better than 100% of the people that took the test because that includes you. But you can strive for the 99.99percentile!
    I hope I didn't make this worse
    Not worse than it already is.
    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime View Post
    ...
    Now Paul goes on to write about not breaking 9 out of 10 of them (clearly he has no issues with Sabbath breaking vs keeping) but it seems as they are apart of the Laws of Christ not Mosaic.
    ...
    Are you talking about in general Paul wrote about this,
    or did he say something specific about those commandments?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
    Are you talking about in general Paul wrote about this,
    or did he say something specific about those commandments?
    In general is what I meant
    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorrowedTime View Post

    1) If Christ fulfilled the Law (Mosaic) then that should be over and done correct? (Please no red herring "giving license to sin" argument.)
    The Law of Moses has been rendered inoperative.

    Christ is the end of the Law - that includes all 613 commandments.
    Romans 10:4 (NAS)
    4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

    We can not be justified by the Law.
    Galatians 2:16
    16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

    There is no sanctification or perfection through the Law.
    Hebrews 7:19
    19 (for the Law made nothing perfect ), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

    The Law was never meant to be permanent administration, but a temporary one.
    Galatians 3:19
    19 Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator

    The Levitical Priesthood was imperfect and was replaced by the Priesthood of Mechizedek. Hebrews 9 and 10 shows that animal blood could not bring perfection, only Jesus' blood can do that.
    Hebrews 7:11-12, 18
    11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law ), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron?
    12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also

    18 For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness


    The Law of Moses and especially the 10 Commandments have passed away or rendered inoperative.
    See 2 Corinthians 3:2-11

    Believers are now under a new Law - the Law of Christ
    Galatians 6:2
    2 Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

    Any commandments given to believers and the Church in the New Testament are requirements of Christ's Law. In fact, of the original 10 Commandments given to Moses, 9 of the 10 are upheld in the Law of Christ. The only one not upheld is to keep the Sabbath. There are other laws that changed, though, under Mosaic Law eating pork was not permitted, but under the Law of Christ, this is not a commandment. Christ Himself gave us a new commandment, to love one another as He loved us.

    Think of it this way, I was born in Illinois and while living there had to follow the state traffic laws of Illinois, I now live in Missouri and no longer follow Illinois traffic laws, but rather Missouri traffic laws. EDITED TO ADD: Some of the laws for Illinois may be the same as for Missouri, Illinois may list some that don't apply to Missouri and Missouri may list some that don't apply to Illinois. Now that I live and drive in Missouri, the traffic laws of Illinois are inoperative for me, I now follow Missouri traffic laws.
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

  7. #7
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    I was wondering today about the Sabbath. We know from history that the Puritans kept the Sabbath, and for a long time, many businesses stayed closed on Sunday. These current times most people treat Sunday as just another busy day in their week. I have heard that there is a saying now, "Sunday Fun-day". I know people say we don't need to keep the commandment about the Sabbath, but it seems like Christians at least used to honor God more on Sunday than they do now. Probably out of love for Jesus and not for keeping the law. I think in a way it is a shame we don't honor God more on Sundays.
    "Therefore my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable,
    always abounding in the work of the Lord;
    knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain."

    1 Corinthians 15:58 (ESV)

  8. #8
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    From my understanding, the Sabbath was a Hebrew holy day set by God. It has always been and still is on the day we call Saturday. For the Jew it is the 7th day of the week, starting at sundown on Friday through sundown on Saturday.

    The early church, as recorded in scripture often would meet on Sunday, or simply known to the Hebrews as "the first day of the week". But, we know from Paul that we are not obligated to meet on Sundays only: Romans 14:5. Galatians 4:9-10. Colossians 2:16-17. It is traditions of men that sought to make Sunday the new Sabbath day and not scripture.

    I too remember the blue laws of my childhood. Sundays for me were about church, worship, family, afternoon games, reading and resting. Personally, I liked these quiet days when the world seemed to shut down. Although, there were sometimes inconveniences with this practice. But, from a scriptural stand-point, a "blue-day Sunday" was not instituted by the Bible. However, I think what Paul is talking about in Romans 14:5, Paul's practice to me infers that he worshiped and fellowshipped on any given day or more precisely, every given day of the week. But, he also allowed for some to consider one day holier than another ("let each man be fully assured in his own mind.")

    EDITED TO ADD: That Sundays no longer seem holy, I think is a reflection of our times. Preachers used to complain about Sunday worshipers - who sinned the rest of the week. Now we have far fewer of even the Sunday worshipers.
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

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