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Thread: Need help disputing a lie regarding Jews

  1. #1
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    Default Need help disputing a lie regarding Jews

    Hi,

    Before I go to other sources, I thought I would check in here first.

    I have a friend who is a Jew. He got saved and used to love the Lord. I knew from facebook that he still was still partaking in Jewish celebrations and holidays along side his christianity. Well, I guess he has finally bought into the lie that ALL jews will go to heaven because they are the chosen ones. His response to me was "We worship the same God". And he is flat out rejecting Jesus and the NT.

    So, I know the sin argument and what Jesus did. I think what I need are OT verses maybe that show what "chosen" means and that Jews who do not believe are not going to heaven and will go to hell.

    Have any of you argued this point and, if so, I"m open to suggestions. At first this made my heart hurt for him but now I'm angry because I think deep down he knows better. I also realize that it generally means one of two things: Either he never was really saved Or he was saved and is making a conscious choice to deny Jesus. Both end him up in hell. :-(

    Please help if you have dealt with this before. Thank you ahead of time. I do appreciate any input or advice given.
    "Those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."Isaiah 40:31

  2. #2
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    I don't know any Old Testament verses, but I know the Covenant he thinks will get
    him to heaven slammed shut when Jesus died on the Cross, and the new one opened
    up. The Jews have been set aside since they failed to accept their Messiah when He
    rode into town on a Colt. So, if he believes ANY of the New Testament, proof is easy.

    Hmmmm, Old Testament.

    I do remember something in either Proverbs or Psalms about a way
    which seems right to a man, but the end thereof ...

    And then, there is Psalms 1:5
    Therefore the ungodly will not stand in the Judgement,
    nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

    And I think we can prove that all have sinned.

    It's a start.
    Walking in The Light of His Word.

  3. #3
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    Well we don't worship the "same god" per say

    Christ is God in the Flesh. And Christ Himself said to deny Him was to deny the Father.

    So for your friend you would have to show him that the Mosaic Law was a works system but it still required faith to the coming Messiah.

    Also

    https://www.gotquestions.org/Jews-saved.html
    Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

  4. #4
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    Default Depends on which Testament you use...

    If your friend wants to use the Old Testament, you are in luck. Paul used exactly the same argument in the letter to the Galatians. The judaizers were luring the Galatian believers into thinking salvation required faith in Jesus PLUS circumcision. Problem is if you add circumcision, you eventually start adding all the other Pharisaic requirements into your worldview and then you are stuck back in to believing you are responsible for your own salvation.

    The reasoning goes like this;
    Galatians 3

    The law came 430 years after a covenant was made with Abraham. The law was an addendum which had it's own terms and could only be fulfilled by Jesus Christ alone (verse 16). This Law did not have any legal impact on the original covenant. So what was the covenant? "Abraham, I'm going to give you a son and because of the lineage of this son, I will bless the world through you." What did Abraham do to receive this covenant? NOTHING!

    He believed and it was credited to him as righteousness. Similarly, what do we have to do to receive salvation? NOTHING! We cannot DO anything sufficient to obtain it. That is why we need a Saviour, a Kinsman-Redeemer, a God-man that could do this on our behalf. So when we believe Jesus is God in human flesh and He has saved us, we then (like is says in Gal 3:7) become sons of Abraham in faith. Notice it does not say we become sons of Issac or Jacob. That is necessary for the lineage of Jews.
    Also notice that the Abrahamic covenant is an eternal one (Gen 17:7). Jews are still required to follow the Abrahamic covenant, the Mosaic one is dealt with and abrogated. Want proof? Acts 16:3 Paul had Timothy circumcised and Gal 2:3 Titus was not required to be circumcised. WHY? Because Timothy came from Jewish parentage and Titus was a Greek. Paul knew his stuff.

    Finally, there is no problem in partaking in the Jewish feasts and ceremonies if you realize they all point to Jesus. That is where the focus should be. However if he is hoping by doing these ceremonies he will improve his standing in heaven, he will be sadly mistaken. Jesus mentioned multiple times where the religious leaders would be in the place of gnashing of teeth (hell) and the tax collectors and prostitutes would be dining at the table with Abraham and the patriarchs (symbolic of paradise or heaven). See Gal 4:9-10 for Paul's treatment of that.

    I guess you could also do a little background research into how many times God called Israel through the prophets trying to get them to return to Him. My question would be "would those Jews who rebelled against God in the Old Testament go to heaven too?"

    Dr. A. Fruchtenbaum has a great study on Galatians dealing with all of this stuff.
    Sola Scriptura - Scripture Alone
    Solus Christus - Christ Alone
    Sola Gratia - Grace Alone
    Sola Fide - Faith Alone
    Soli Deo Gloria - The Glory of God Alone

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine2777 View Post
    I also realize that it generally means one of two things: Either he never was really saved Or he was saved and is making a conscious choice to deny Jesus. Both end him up in hell. :-(
    A couple things: First, if your friend was saved, he's saved. Period. So if you're of the impression that his conversion was real he's Heaven bound no matter what he does subsequently​.

    Second: Salvation has always been an individual choice. There is no such thing as a "blanket" salvation offered to any groups of people..

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve53 View Post
    A couple things: First, if your friend was saved, he's saved. Period. So if you're of the impression that his conversion was real he's Heaven bound no matter what he does subsequently​.

    Second: Salvation has always been an individual choice. There is no such thing as a "blanket" salvation offered to any groups of people..
    So you think that if a "saved" person makes a conscious and pointed decision to reject Jesus, His Word and His truth, that He is still saved? I'm sorry but I disagree with you Steve on this one. The bible says that if a person gets the truth then rejects it later, he is in worse shape than as if he had never known the truth. The one unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is His spirit of truth. So if you reject Jesus at any point, including after you have been saved, and decide you do not believe in " the way, the truth and the life" (Jesus) anymore, I don't think you are saved and will have your sins forgiven by God. Its rejection of His Son. The one thing that matters. So I have to respectfully disagree and say that you can choose to walk away from Jesus and deny Him and HIs truth and you will lose your salvation.

    I am looking for an OT defense to the lie that all Jews are saved and will go to heaven "just" because they are of the Jewish lineage. No works involved but rather in what line of people one is born into. That is the lie that I need to try and refute with this guy. I know there is no such thing as a blanket salvation. I'm looking for the biblical argument against it.
    "Those who hope in the LORD will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint."Isaiah 40:31

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine2777 View Post
    So you think that if a "saved" person makes a conscious and pointed decision to reject Jesus, His Word and His truth, that He is still saved?
    I'm not saying a "saved" person as in a false conversion. I'm saying if your friend, or anyone else, was ever truly saved, in this dispensation, they're saved. Period. OSAS.

    https://gracethrufaith.com/topical-s...le-say-part-3/

    https://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bib...ll-jews-saved/

    And finally: http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?1159...ficit-Disorder

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



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