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Thread: Christian music

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    I've come across some information that has caused some concern with regards to some Christian music. It seems that everywhere you turn one is running into the Church falling into either New Age or Emergent tendencies. It's all over the place and I am quite aware of it and saddened by it.

    From Hillsong music to so many others... where does one turn to if we can't listen to Christian music anymore? I do not want to listen to any Church, group or band that is falling from the truth of God's Word, as I believe we are commanded in God's Word not to.

    So, the other day I decided to check in at Lighthousetrailsresearch with regards to Bill Gaither, and his group/Church and lo and behold my heart sank as I read. I love listening to their worship music.

    And, it isn't only them, there are others who are affiliated with the Gaither's, such as Jeff and Sherri Easter, Gordon Mote, Jason Crabb.

    Here is a link to the warning on Lighthousetrailsresearch...
    http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch....og/?m=20090307

    I am aware of some other bands such as Hillsong and that Church and will not support their music as I believe they are drawing people with their music and their teaching is not Biblical.
    Now if I listen to these others I listed and they too are also going astray then I wouldn't be obedient to God's Word!

    Here is another article... I am not sure if it is o.k. to post it, but, mod's feel free to remove if needed, although I feel the article is of value for us here...

    https://www.wayoflife.org/database/b...obedience.html


    It would be nice to get some feedback from my Christian friends here... The times that we are living seem to be worsening and it seems it is getting harder and harder to even fellowship with other believers as so many are falling into all kinds of heresy and false doctrine.
    Roger, I agree with you. Today is the time for discernment concerning the leaders and influencers of the faith. This includes the Christian music industry, too. Being a watcher is to see the tip of the iceburg and let others know of the dangers below the sea.
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

  2. #22
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    Another reason not to use Hillsong songs in your church, even if the particular song is OK, is that someone coming to that church may assume that, oh, this church uses Hillsong music, and decide that's not the church for them. They won't know you are picking and choosing. That type of thing is just one of many things that discerning church-shoppers look at.

    One thing I love about hymns (among many things!) is that many were written by giants of the faith, and the lyrics reflect spiritual maturity. Many contemporary songs are written by young people, often "Christian pop stars."

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan51 View Post
    Another reason not to use Hillsong songs in your church, even if the particular song is OK, is that someone coming to that church may assume that, oh, this church uses Hillsong music, and decide that's not the church for them. They won't know you are picking and choosing. That type of thing is just one of many things that discerning church-shoppers look at.

    One thing I love about hymns (among many things!) is that many were written by giants of the faith, and the lyrics reflect spiritual maturity. Many contemporary songs are written by young people, often "Christian pop stars."
    Not sure there's much discernment with people who church shop.

    I don't mean to debate your post, but whenever I've had a need to find a new congregation (moving cities, etc) I've always made a point to visit a place 3-4 weeks to make a determination.

    Back on the subject of music, I find I'm most content with places that have different worship pastors/leaders on a regular basis. My current church has a worship pastor (not me), plus two other worship leaders (I'm one) who divvy up the weeks. If you come to our church for a month or so, you'll see everything from hymns to modern choruses (yes, some Hillsong) and many other styles in between.

    Like I said in my first post, the content of the message MUST outweigh the style or genre. But so long as content is good, I appreciate diversity in styles as it reaches different groups within our church. We're not catering to just 20 year olds or 80 year olds. We want to encourage ALL of them to worship the Lord.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    When I see how many Churches are falling from God's Holy Word, I don't take that lightly. Many mega Churches and small one's alike are falling right into the hands of Satan and twisting God's Word to conform to the culture "the world"and His Word warns us not to do that very thing.

    I believe that many true born again Christians are very serious about walking in the truth and that dabbling in any degree of apostasy would be akin to playing Russian roulette with Satan. What I am trying to convey here is that I don't believe we are to hide from the world, but, we are not to be living like the world or be a part of it, we are in it, but as Christians we are to walk in His Word!
    I have adult children who are caught up in the emergent/new age Church and my heart grieves at how many, too many are falling into the same lies.

    We are told not to do anything to make a brother or sister stumble in their walk with the Lord! If I say it is o.k. to listen to worship music from Hillsong or another Church that is teaching false doctrine, then what message am I giving to these brothers and sisters in Christ? And, also, what message am I giving to the world. And, matter of fact, when I have tried to get my adult children and others in the Church to even listen to any truth about these matters of false teaching from such Churches, I am being divisive. Therefore, I do consider this to be a very serious matter in light of God's Word and the souls of many... including our children and grand children.
    I believe we should fear The Lord, not man.
    Who said I didn't fear The Lord? I agree completely with what you are saying about mega churches or any churches that are emergent/new age. I guess my question would be, do you believe that people that attend such a church could be saved? I know we can't make that judgement but I'm curious to your thoughts. I'm sensitive to the idea of being a "perfect christian" since I myself fall short so many times. If I enjoy a particular song from an artist that is emergent/new age, but the song itself is "fine" am I promoting the artists believes or a false doctrine? And what church or individual for that matter is 100% perfect in their doctrine or walk with the Lord? A friend of my sons goes to one of these emergent churches. Their praise and worship time is more like a rock concert. I have no use for it. Again, I prefer the older hymns. But in the end all I'm really concerned about is whether a person is a born again follower of Jesus Christ. I can be as intolerant at times as anyone on the planet. But I've had to let some things go or I wouldn't go to any church at all. Speaking in Tongues, Water Baptism, pre,mid or post trib, etc. there are different views on some many things. I now longer care if I'm right or wrong about these things. I only care if you are walking with the Lord. Maybe I'm wrong and thousands are being led astray. I don't know. But if I hear a worship song and I like the lyrics and I agree with the lyrics I don't really care who wrote or sings it. That's just me. God Bless you and your family

  5. #25
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    There's a verse I came across several years ago:

    Ecclesiastes 1:18
    18 Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

    I grieve for those I love who have been taken in by any false doctrines. My grief extends to the whole Body of Christ. This isn't a finger-pointing exercise as about 20 years ago I was introduced to a number of false doctrines and believed for a time myself. In general, the Church is made up of SHEEP. Dumber than doorknobs. It was only by God's grace, that this lamb started to even seek Truth concerning the many deceptions in the Church. My saving grace was that I knew enough of the Word of God that I heard alarm bells.

    Fast forward to about 6 years ago and my realizing that discernment is a gift - so many do not have this gift. And many reject truth even when faced squarely with scripture. Those of us that have discernment need to speak up more - me included. It does take courage and sometimes I've been struck with apathy because no one wants to hear.

    How does this apply to Christian music? Our adversary the devil is very sly, he knows how important music is to most of us. I know concerning secular music in my teens when I had a favorite album, I would read every word on the album cover. I wanted to know more about the band members, etc. My point follows that Christians, thinking they are in safe territory, will want to learn more about the groups and churches that produce their favorite music. What they don't know can hurt them. Some of us more "discerning" might be able to enjoy music that is scriptural and walk away from the bad theology that is being taught and shown by these artists and churches, but what about those of the Body who do not have this gift? Who are not mature in the Word? Who are being led like sheep, astray?

    Both Hillsong and Gaither are on cable tv. Hillsong now has their own channel even. Who is going to issue a warning to the Body of Christ?

    Proverbs 4:5
    5 Acquire wisdom! Acquire understanding! Do not forget nor turn away from the words of my mouth.
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust&Obey View Post
    There's a verse I came across several years ago:

    Ecclesiastes 1:18
    18 Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain.

    I grieve for those I love who have been taken in by any false doctrines. My grief extends to the whole Body of Christ. This isn't a finger-pointing exercise as about 20 years ago I was introduced to a number of false doctrines and believed for a time myself. In general, the Church is made up of SHEEP. Dumber than doorknobs. It was only by God's grace, that this lamb started to even seek Truth concerning the many deceptions in the Church. My saving grace was that I knew enough of the Word of God that I heard alarm bells.

    Fast forward to about 6 years ago and my realizing that discernment is a gift - so many do not have this gift. And many reject truth even when faced squarely with scripture. Those of us that have discernment need to speak up more - me included. It does take courage and sometimes I've been struck with apathy because no one wants to hear.

    How does this apply to Christian music? Our adversary the devil is very sly, he knows how important music is to most of us. I know concerning secular music in my teens when I had a favorite album, I would read every word on the album cover. I wanted to know more about the band members, etc. My point follows that Christians, thinking they are in safe territory, will want to learn more about the groups and churches that produce their favorite music. What they don't know can hurt them. Some of us more "discerning" might be able to enjoy music that is scriptural and walk away from the bad theology that is being taught and shown by these artists and churches, but what about those of the Body who do not have this gift? Who are not mature in the Word? Who are being led like sheep, astray?

    Both Hillsong and Gaither are on cable tv. Hillsong now has their own channel even. Who is going to issue a warning to the Body of Christ?

    Proverbs 4:5
    5 Acquire wisdom! Acquire understanding! Do not forget nor turn away from the words of my mouth.
    Well said, well spoken.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rks7777 View Post
    Well said, well spoken.
    Thank you rks7777
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust&Obey View Post
    Who said I was logical? I'm not logical, but I am paranoid.

    Funning aside. As the Deer is based on a Psalm, so yeah, I really love that one!

    There was a time, years ago, that I was the worship leader in a church where the old timers didn't like the "new" praise songs. I would often pick scripturally based songs and before even singing them would have some or all of our worship team members read the scripture that it came from. I wonder what they would have thought if I'd read the scriptures about the roaring lion before singing the song I listed above ?!

    Many many years ago in my early walk with the Lord I thought doing Bible Studies outside of God's Word was o.k,/good, like using well known authors that we see nowadays that are not teaching sound Scripture, but, instead twisting it! Now, I didn't do lots of it, I was a newish believer and just starting up in Church and just started doing one and didn't get far before noticing God's Word being taken out of context. I stopped right away, I didn't even know much of God's Word as I said I was a new believer, but, I dropped it like a hot potato.
    Then, there was this Pastor who was pushing Calvinism/Lordship Salvation and I didn't know anything concerning this, and, again, I was prompted and believe it was the Holy Spirit guiding me to search out truth all along. This is what pushed me into God's Word to search the Scriptures and to search out God's truth and I believe God also led me to this site.

    Over the years, I've had all manner of criticism from other believers, leaders included! This it what has broken my heart, when now our adult children we're and are exposed to such teachings and are now hateful towards us. Their friends and in-laws are a part of the Church and they don't want anything to do with us either. Our adult children and their wives, have basically disowned us, they want nothing to do with us, we have 4 grand children and don't see them. I have tried to talk with the leaders of this Church (in the past) and again several months ago due to the estranged relationship with our son and dil. I approached our dil's mother who is a leader in the Church and she dismissed everything that I brought up. I would of thought that at some point these leaders would know what God's Word says and how Christians should be according to His Word, but I was basically dismissed! But they will hear nothing of it and shun/reject us and I believe we are looked upon as being divisive. This is how things are going in the Church, in many Churches... We need to pray for the Church and our leaders, it not only breaks my heart, but, I know it breaks God's heart also to see men behave in such a way and call these places Churches.
    Our hearts are torn apart and I can't say enough about how easy it is to be deceived, we read it all over in Scripture.

    This past Sunday as the worship team at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills was worshipping (I listen live stream Sunday mornings)' they actually stopped singing, with still some background music and made sure they explained some of the meaning of the song. They are very careful to make sure they are teaching the truth, even through a song, to make sure no one gets the wrong message of the meaning of it, it was a good song, I can't remember what it was, but there was nothing wrong with it, it was just making sure it was not taken out of context. We need to remember that "a song is not God's Word".

    Even when the song is based on Jesus, God, Lord, and all the words are praising His Holy name, if it is associated with a so called Church who's Doctrine is not Biblical, I believe can give a wrong impression that they are a good solid Bible believing Church.
    Also, if people are more concerned with the "feeling" of the music, how it makes them feel, how they want it to be upbeat then there is the potential to forget that it is not about us, it is about worshipping God. If we seriously consider worshipping God with hymns, how many would like that? I bet not too many... I believe so much of the old hymns are so full of God's glory as many of them lived out their faith clinging to His Holy Word! Now, a lot of songs don't even include His Word and can center too much on us rather than on Him.

    I don't have an issue per say with a Christian song that is all about God, but I do want to make sure it's lyrics are sound! I want to make sure I am not giving the impression that I am worshipping the song or the band or that it is all about me either and how it makes me feel. God's Word is about Him, all of it and it is for our salvation, for our edification and to conform us to His image.
    I am hypervigilant about everything and I think we should be, not wanting to stray from His Word and I want to live this out as well as share this with others...

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust&Obey View Post
    Roger, I agree with you. Today is the time for discernment concerning the leaders and influencers of the faith. This includes the Christian music industry, too. Being a watcher is to see the tip of the iceburg and let others know of the dangers below the sea.
    Thank you I'm not meaning to nit pick, don't want anyone to think that. My concern for others comes from a heart of love for God and who He is and a concern for souls.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    Many many years ago in my early walk with the Lord I thought doing Bible Studies outside of God's Word was o.k,/good, like using well known authors that we see nowadays that are not teaching sound Scripture, but, instead twisting it! Now, I didn't do lots of it, I was a newish believer and just starting up in Church and just started doing one and didn't get far before noticing God's Word being taken out of context. I stopped right away, I didn't even know much of God's Word as I said I was a new believer, but, I dropped it like a hot potato.
    Then, there was this Pastor who was pushing Calvinism/Lordship Salvation and I didn't know anything concerning this, and, again, I was prompted and believe it was the Holy Spirit guiding me to search out truth all along. This is what pushed me into God's Word to search the Scriptures and to search out God's truth and I believe God also led me to this site.

    Over the years, I've had all manner of criticism from other believers, leaders included! This it what has broken my heart, when now our adult children we're and are exposed to such teachings and are now hateful towards us. Their friends and in-laws are a part of the Church and they don't want anything to do with us either. Our adult children and their wives, have basically disowned us, they want nothing to do with us, we have 4 grand children and don't see them. I have tried to talk with the leaders of this Church (in the past) and again several months ago due to the estranged relationship with our son and dil. I approached our dil's mother who is a leader in the Church and she dismissed everything that I brought up. I would of thought that at some point these leaders would know what God's Word says and how Christians should be according to His Word, but I was basically dismissed! But they will hear nothing of it and shun/reject us and I believe we are looked upon as being divisive. This is how things are going in the Church, in many Churches... We need to pray for the Church and our leaders, it not only breaks my heart, but, I know it breaks God's heart also to see men behave in such a way and call these places Churches.
    Our hearts are torn apart and I can't say enough about how easy it is to be deceived, we read it all over in Scripture.

    This past Sunday as the worship team at Calvary Chapel Chino Hills was singing they actually stopped singing, with still some background music and made sure they explained some of the meaning of the song. They are very careful to make sure they are teaching, even through a song, to make sure no one gets the wrong message of the meaning of it.

    Even when the song is based on Jesus, God, Lord, and all the words are praising His Holy name, if it is associated with a so called Church who's Doctrine is not Biblical, I believe can give a wrong impression that they are a good solid Bible believing Church.
    Also, if people are more concerned with the "feeling" of the music, how it makes them feel, how they want it to be upbeat then there is the potential to forget that it is not about us, it is about worshipping God.

    I don't have an issue per say with a Christian song that is all about God, but I do want to make sure it's lyrics are sound! I want to make sure I am not giving the impression that I am worshipping the song or the band or that it is all about me either and how it makes me feel. God's Word is about Him, all of it and it is for our salvation, for our edification and to conform us to His image.
    I am hypervigilant about everything and I think we should be, not wanting to stray from His Word and I want to live this out as well as share this with others...
    Roger - it seems that though we've never met, we have walked a similar path. I can't say, though, that my path has distanced me to the extent that yours has from family. Although, I also have shadows of that as well. It truly is heartbreaking and if we are not careful, it can be overwhelming. Rather coincidentally, I also ran into the issue of Calvanism/Lordship Salvation that ultimately meant leaving my home church. In six years from that time only one person reached out to me - and that just a couple of weeks ago. Unlike most stories, my home church hired and then fired a minister who was emergent and into the Lordship Salvation doctrine. It took them awhile, but most were glad to see him leave. I had given warnings to the pastor search committee, but they were blind to all of my arguments. There really is no other word but blind....but now 6 years later, I have hope that I might return to this church and that their arms will be open wide. Keep praying. He can do the impossible! And even if He doesn't open doors to your family and relatives, only He can comfort you.


    Thank you also for starting this discussion.
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by rks7777 View Post
    Who said I didn't fear The Lord? I agree completely with what you are saying about mega churches or any churches that are emergent/new age. I guess my question would be, do you believe that people that attend such a church could be saved? I know we can't make that judgement but I'm curious to your thoughts. I'm sensitive to the idea of being a "perfect christian" since I myself fall short so many times. If I enjoy a particular song from an artist that is emergent/new age, but the song itself is "fine" am I promoting the artists believes or a false doctrine? And what church or individual for that matter is 100% perfect in their doctrine or walk with the Lord? A friend of my sons goes to one of these emergent churches. Their praise and worship time is more like a rock concert. I have no use for it. Again, I prefer the older hymns. But in the end all I'm really concerned about is whether a person is a born again follower of Jesus Christ. I can be as intolerant at times as anyone on the planet. But I've had to let some things go or I wouldn't go to any church at all. Speaking in Tongues, Water Baptism, pre,mid or post trib, etc. there are different views on some many things. I now longer care if I'm right or wrong about these things. I only care if you are walking with the Lord. Maybe I'm wrong and thousands are being led astray. I don't know. But if I hear a worship song and I like the lyrics and I agree with the lyrics I don't really care who wrote or sings it. That's just me. God Bless you and your family
    I did not mean to imply that you didn't fear The Lord!
    It wasn't directed at you, it was just a comment meaning we, meaning "we" as Christians, need to be very careful how we walk in light of His Word because it is easy to be deceived. We are warned over and over again how many will be deceived, how many false teachers and wolves will be in the midst of the Church, not outside the Church, but "in" the Church.

    I don't think it matters what I believe if someone could be saved in such a Church. It matters what God's Word says and I know He is not pleased with Churches such as these, those who are using His Word to their own gain. I know He gives great warning in Scripture to the Church, to it's leaders and to us.

    We all fall short, but, again, it isn't about us, it is about teaching and preaching God's Word, the whole counsel of God's Word, it's about Him and when we stray from His Word we increase our chances from straying from living the way He commands us to live and that is to love Him, not the world, we are not to love this world but to search Him out with all of our hearts and live according to His Word!
    I am far from being perfect, boy, the longer I live the more I hate this body and my flesh..... I hate my sin, I hate sin, I don't find this world to offer much at all, I mean sure God created a beautiful earth and all it's glory, but, I also see what sin has caused, all it's suffering and all it's hate and evil. This is not our home, I am longing for His return, for when sin will be no more.
    It's been like this for a long time, but, it grows stronger and stronger all the time and the more I am in His Word and the closer I draw nearer to Him, the more I am longing to be out of this big old sinful world.
    We must not take our eyes off of Him and Satan is always looking for ways to get our eyes off of God! He is cunning, and we must be careful lest we be deceived!
    I see many who are deceived, at least it seems this way to me and we need to be careful and warn others and preach the Word, not just sugar coat it.
    I'm not trying to preach at you, I'm just sharing my thoughts and concerns. I love people, I want people to know that God loves them and offers salvation to those who will believe. And, I see too many Christians who profess to be Christians and yet they don't act like a Bible believing Christian and I know that we are all at different growth times in our walk with Him, but, I know people who have been Christians for way, way longer than I have (decades) and like I mentioned in an earlier post with some who don't want anything to do with us. There is no love. It's all about their agendas, it seems to be their status in the Church, a social gospel, tickling of ears and entertainment?

    Has God's Word taken root in their lives? Did it fall to the wayside? Is it only a head knowledge and not a heart change? Even when we look at the fruit in their lives, we still don't know, we can't judge them on their salvation... but, we can still have some idea, we need to be careful though. I ask this question.... Why, if they are true born again Christians, why don't they want to listen to "any" concerns that any other Christians may have about God's Word! I mean it is God's Word after all, not my opinion or the opinion of someone else when we use His Word, right out of the Bible??
    God gives clear instruction and I believe it is clear, on how we should live, it's all in the Bible.
    Why are they so concerned about getting people from the world to come into the Church by using all kinds of gimmicks, entertainment and when you mention sitting down and doing a bible study, right out of the Bible they don't seem interested because people won't want to come?
    What about dealing with sin in the Church? How many Churches want to do this? When I have spoken to our sons, who profess to be Christians, when I have brought up Scripture with them about obedience, they are offended. Many years ago, I found out that the Church, the Pastor actually was notinterested in warning the Church about the dangers of any unbiblical teaching.
    Many Churches are starting to look like the world, we need to pray.

    It really does break my heart and I'm sure it's not pleasing God either... We've lost our boys, we don't see them, they've disowned us, we are shunned by the Church, we are judged and criticized, we don't see our 4 grand children, the Church does not care at all, they are doing the same with us and are aware of how things are with our son and dil, they are all in the same Church family.
    It is not my opinion that matters, it is God's Word that has the final authority! God's Word is truth and it's pretty hard to argue against His Word!

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust&Obey View Post
    Roger - it seems that though we've never met, we have walked a similar path. I can't say, though, that my path has distanced me to the extent that yours has from family. Although, I also have shadows of that as well. It truly is heartbreaking and if we are not careful, it can be overwhelming. Rather coincidentally, I also ran into the issue of Calvanism/Lordship Salvation that ultimately meant leaving my home church. In six years from that time only one person reached out to me - and that just a couple of weeks ago. Unlike most stories, my home church hired and then fired a minister who was emergent and into the Lordship Salvation doctrine. It took them awhile, but most were glad to see him leave. I had given warnings to the pastor search committee, but they were blind to all of my arguments. There really is no other word but blind....but now 6 years later, I have hope that I might return to this church and that their arms will be open wide. Keep praying. He can do the impossible! And even if He doesn't open doors to your family and relatives, only He can comfort you.


    Thank you also for starting this discussion.
    And, thank you also for sharing, I believe you did a better job in saying what I wanted to say. And, it does seem our paths are similar and I do pray that God open up a door for you to return to Church and that you will be received with open arms. We do have to trust Him, sometimes I think we can try to hard instead of surrendering our whole lives to Him. Trying to have things our way in our time, we are growing up in Him and we must remember that as well.
    It is a sad when families are torn apart, it is not God's plan that it be that way, but, even when we try our best, it seems that our best still isn't enough. We have tried to love as God has commanded us to love, we have tried to be at peace with them, but, it seems that even that has not been enough.
    There is a pushing away and a constant criticizing and it has been a great detriment to ongoing health issues and when it starts to impact one's ability to function it seems like the only thing to do now is to step back and let go. Otherwise there is always anxiety and stress and a decline in health, while all the while not knowing what to say or do or ask or don't ask and always apologizing. It seems like some people want to keep you in a place of guilt and shame and condemnation, while they control your life and we've struggled greatly, being gentle, humble and not withholding our love and affections.
    But, also going to Scripture and believing that if they confess to be Christians, whether they are or not, they have been given the gospel, we've confronted, we've shared Scripture. It's been a vicious cycle like this for 10 years and I'm not sure I can go on like this anymore, we are both tired and exhausted!

    Yes, I believe we need to stand on God's Word! It has been hard to walk at times, feeling confused on which approach to take, to love them, but, to also speak truth, to be humble, but again, if we are always loving and accepting and humble but don't stand for truth then what are we doing?

    A huge struggle was whether they are true believers or not and not knowing exactly how to approach them as Scripture instructs differently for believers and unbelievers. I'm praying, and yes God can do the impossible. He loves them more than I do, they belong to Him and I know that His will is for them to turn to Him.
    He is our peace (Shalom) (Eph.2: 14)

  13. #33
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    The last 6 years have had their effect on me as well. In many ways I feel like a shell of the person I once was. Empty at times. Illness alone can do that, but the stress of broken relationships took its toll as well. But I know that I feel this most when I'm focusing on myself and not God!

    God has brought me through it all!!! I say that even when I still feel "in" many trials. His strength is perfect, truly, when our strength is gone.
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

  14. #34
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    Feb 2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post


    It really does break my heart and I'm sure it's not pleasing God either... We've lost our boys, we don't see them, they've disowned us, we are shunned by the Church, we are judged and criticized, we don't see our 4 grand children, the Church does not care at all, they are doing the same with us and are aware of how things are with our son and dil, they are all in the same Church family.
    It is not my opinion that matters, it is God's Word that has the final authority! God's Word is truth and it's pretty hard to argue against His Word!
    I am so sorry to hear about your sons and grandsons....I know so many folks whose families have been torn apart and generations totally disconnected from one another...it breaks my heart. It did not used to be like this. Families are being destroyed...I suppose this is part of the End Times...My sister has not spoken to my 84 year old mother in about 18 months.Praying for you and your family.

  15. #35
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    May 2008
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    Missouri
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    Roger

    This was my Grandma's favorite hymn. I agree it's a great one!

    What a Friend We Have in Jesus https://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn/h/789

    What a Friend we have in Jesus,
    All our sins and griefs to bear!
    What a privilege to carry
    Everything to God in prayer!
    O what peace we often forfeit,
    O what needless pain we bear,
    All because we do not carry
    Everything to God in prayer!

    Have we trials and temptations?
    Is there trouble anywhere?
    We should never be discouraged,
    Take it to the Lord in prayer.
    Can we find a friend so faithful
    Who will all our sorrows share?
    Jesus knows our every weakness,
    Take it to the Lord in prayer.

    Are we weak and heavy-laden,
    Cumbered with a load of care?
    Precious Savior, still our refuge—
    Take it to the Lord in prayer;
    Do thy friends despise, forsake thee?
    Take it to the Lord in prayer;
    In His arms He’ll take and shield thee,
    Thou wilt find a solace there.
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

  16. #36
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    Jan 2009
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    Central Ohio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger View Post
    I did not mean to imply that you didn't fear The Lord!
    It wasn't directed at you, it was just a comment meaning we, meaning "we" as Christians, need to be very careful how we walk in light of His Word because it is easy to be deceived. We are warned over and over again how many will be deceived, how many false teachers and wolves will be in the midst of the Church, not outside the Church, but "in" the Church.

    I don't think it matters what I believe if someone could be saved in such a Church. It matters what God's Word says and I know He is not pleased with Churches such as these, those who are using His Word to their own gain. I know He gives great warning in Scripture to the Church, to it's leaders and to us.

    We all fall short, but, again, it isn't about us, it is about teaching and preaching God's Word, the whole counsel of God's Word, it's about Him and when we stray from His Word we increase our chances from straying from living the way He commands us to live and that is to love Him, not the world, we are not to love this world but to search Him out with all of our hearts and live according to His Word!
    I am far from being perfect, boy, the longer I live the more I hate this body and my flesh..... I hate my sin, I hate sin, I don't find this world to offer much at all, I mean sure God created a beautiful earth and all it's glory, but, I also see what sin has caused, all it's suffering and all it's hate and evil. This is not our home, I am longing for His return, for when sin will be no more.
    It's been like this for a long time, but, it grows stronger and stronger all the time and the more I am in His Word and the closer I draw nearer to Him, the more I am longing to be out of this big old sinful world.
    We must not take our eyes off of Him and Satan is always looking for ways to get our eyes off of God! He is cunning, and we must be careful lest we be deceived!
    I see many who are deceived, at least it seems this way to me and we need to be careful and warn others and preach the Word, not just sugar coat it.
    I'm not trying to preach at you, I'm just sharing my thoughts and concerns. I love people, I want people to know that God loves them and offers salvation to those who will believe. And, I see too many Christians who profess to be Christians and yet they don't act like a Bible believing Christian and I know that we are all at different growth times in our walk with Him, but, I know people who have been Christians for way, way longer than I have (decades) and like I mentioned in an earlier post with some who don't want anything to do with us. There is no love. It's all about their agendas, it seems to be their status in the Church, a social gospel, tickling of ears and entertainment?

    Has God's Word taken root in their lives? Did it fall to the wayside? Is it only a head knowledge and not a heart change? Even when we look at the fruit in their lives, we still don't know, we can't judge them on their salvation... but, we can still have some idea, we need to be careful though. I ask this question.... Why, if they are true born again Christians, why don't they want to listen to "any" concerns that any other Christians may have about God's Word! I mean it is God's Word after all, not my opinion or the opinion of someone else when we use His Word, right out of the Bible??
    God gives clear instruction and I believe it is clear, on how we should live, it's all in the Bible.
    Why are they so concerned about getting people from the world to come into the Church by using all kinds of gimmicks, entertainment and when you mention sitting down and doing a bible study, right out of the Bible they don't seem interested because people won't want to come?
    What about dealing with sin in the Church? How many Churches want to do this? When I have spoken to our sons, who profess to be Christians, when I have brought up Scripture with them about obedience, they are offended. Many years ago, I found out that the Church, the Pastor actually was notinterested in warning the Church about the dangers of any unbiblical teaching.
    Many Churches are starting to look like the world, we need to pray.

    It really does break my heart and I'm sure it's not pleasing God either... We've lost our boys, we don't see them, they've disowned us, we are shunned by the Church, we are judged and criticized, we don't see our 4 grand children, the Church does not care at all, they are doing the same with us and are aware of how things are with our son and dil, they are all in the same Church family.
    It is not my opinion that matters, it is God's Word that has the final authority! God's Word is truth and it's pretty hard to argue against His Word!
    You're a good man Roger and have a beautiful walk with the Lord. I wish I knew you personally. I too am estranged from my oldest son and his wife and my 2 grandchildren. They are Christians but for some reason we have been ostracized. We haven't seen them in over a year and have only seen them a few times in the past 3 years. It breaks my heart. As I study the bible, it's clear that this is not how it should be. I will pray for you and your family to have healing and reconciliation but not at a compromise to the God's Word. God Bless you and your family.

  17. #37
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    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
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    Here is a quote from an article posted on RR at http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?2016...old-Ministries

    Infiltration
    The influence of NAR has become broader, and therefore more dangerous, as many of its ideas are being accepted by traditionally non-charismatic churches and organizations. This acceptance is due to a number of factors.

    • Bethel, Hillsong and IHOP music has found enthusiastic reception in churches, youth ministries and among young adults throughout the evangelical spectrum.
    • Many have no understanding of the teachings of NAR and no concept of what it is.
    • Influential NAR teachers and books are making in-roads into evangelical circles.
    • Due to rampant biblical illiteracy and general apathy toward Scripture and theology, fewer Christians are alarmed or even aware that false teaching and deception is taking place. Not surprisingly those who attempt to warn about NAR or other false teachings are often vilified and labeled as negative, legalistic and haters.

    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

  18. #38
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    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central Ohio
    Posts
    271

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trust&Obey View Post
    Here is a quote from an article posted on RR at http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?2016...old-Ministries
    excellent article....thanks for posting

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