I celebrate Christmas
I celebrate Easter
I celebrate Halloween
I celebrate all
I celebrate None - It's of the devil! 
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I remember reading somewhere that the Gregorian calendar-based Easter date is way off from the truer dates. The Eastern-rites Catholic church, Eastern orthodox church follow the older Julian calendar that matches the Easter date each year with Passover on Jewish calendar, which makes the date in theory much more accurate.
And in addition, even the dates of Jesus's death and resurrection are off: one source says Jesus died on a Wednesday and resurrected on Saturday. <><
The Jews were told when to celebrate certain holy days (Passover, Day of Atonement etc... see Lev. 23) There is nothing in the NT about setting aside a certain day of the year to celebrate his resurrection, rather Christians celebrate it every Sunday!
We honor the Lord’s resurrection by gathering together every Sunday.
The New Testament teaching takes it for granted that believers assemble with other believers on Sunday. See “first day” gatherings: Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2; Rev. 1:10
Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul {began} talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.
1 Cor 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also.
1 Cor 16:2 On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come.
The early church believers said that Christians meet on Sunday because of his resurrection:
Justin Martyr on Christian worship ** c. 150 AD
"And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs and exhorts to the imitation of these good things.
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ, our Saviour, on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration." (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. xlvii)
Didache 80-90 A.D. "And on the day of our lords resurrection, which is the Lord’s day meet more diligently.“
The Teaching of the Apostles 160 AD (Volume 8, Page 668). "The Apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service and the reading of the Holy Scriptures, and the oblation: because on the first day of the week our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week He arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week He ascended up to heaven."
If some believers attend church on Sundays and then celebrate another time of the year to celebrate the resurrection---that is fine if they do that. But it is also fine if believers say "I honor the resurrection every Sunday and i don't think that the modern day 'Easter Sunday' is some special day."
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Satan has always tried to destroy Christ. In USA, every spring, when Easter is celebrated, the distractions are abundant and the focus is not on Jesus. Oh, He gets a 'mention' of course. Churches regularly sponsor egg rolls, egg hunts, Easter breakfasts, and typically cancel evening services on Easter. Dh & I honor Christ's resurrection on the day referred to as Easter, of course, but we also celebrate Passover and speak of how Jesus is our Passover Lamb. This is a good lesson for our grandchildren, and the focus is on JESUS, not on Easter bunnies, etc.Originally Posted by Scripture Alone
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I'm starting to feel a little better now. Personally we don't believe in celebrating Easter as a separate holiday, and that Christmas is approx. when Jesus was conceived, but not actually given birth to.
We would tell her about that too, but we can only lead her in baby steps. I'm glad we're not the only ones who believe this.
She also said at the communion when Jesus said "Do this in remembrance of me." thing and said that's why we must celebrate Easter. To me, it's just not even in the same context.
There's just a lot of things she does and says that off. I guess the majority of people who claim to be Christians wouldn't notice them. I have to contain myself at times, I want to tell her the truth so badly, but if I get her angry once then she'll never listen. Actually she turns almost viper like when anything challenges her version of Christianity. The basics are there, just represented wrong sometimes, ya know?
on another topic, I did run across a cute saying the other day,
"JESUS IS BACK! QUICK! HIDE THE EGGS!"
Last edited by Rinji; March 25th, 2008 at 08:53 AM.
God is logical.
If he wasn't, then he would have created the grass before the light!
What is the probability God would have gotten all 7 days in the right order if he had no logic?
1 of out 5040 possibilities.
Regular Member
Rinji, from another thread you started, I know that you are a new bride. You probably want so badly to be able to 'agree' with your new mother-in-law, especially since she, too, is a professing Christian. In our family, we, too, have a lot of professing Christians, and there are some areas of our understanding that we don't mention in conversation to them, because it would only serve to divide us. Family is too precious for this to happen.
This year, part of our family celebrated Easter in the traditional way with all the trappings, but we did not. We are, however, (all of us) getting together for Passover, and it will be a joyful time for the entire group.
We do, however, witness to another group that live elsewhere that we believe are self deceived, but in the end, it's up to them. We just don't want to be a stumbling block to their finding Christ for real due to our style of interacting with them.
Every Sunday is resurrection Sunday in our church. We don't celebrate Passover, although I may preach on it sometime or mention it when we take communion.
There is nothing in the NT about Sunday evening service. If you have services great! If you normally have them but you cancel them at different times....that is fine as well. We can't stand in judgment on the issue of church canceling its Sunday evening service when Scripture does not proscribe it!
Romans 14:4-6 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
Colossians 2:16-17 16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
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The Scriptures teaches us we can remember our Lord Jesus on any day of the week for the purpose of service - that's entirely believers' liberty. Besides, in Asian countries the concept of week only became popular after contacts with the West, and different from the Western countries, they regard Sunday as the seventh and last day of the week. If we use the logic of the "first day of the week" this would push church services to be on Mondays. (!)
But having said this, it must be noted during the NT times, as opposed to the post-NT early church father period, "first day of the week" as in Acts etc are on Saturday nights - Acts used Jewish timing of the day.
This is an interesting conversation.
My sister has started going to a Messianic church, and since then has decided that Church on Sunday, Easter, Christmas, eating pork, etc., are all huge no-no's. She sent me a link to a website called Too Long in the Sun, regarding pagan stuff that's influenced christianity...
in essence, this website promotes a works-based salvation, and insinuates that anyone who does not celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday as was commanded in Exodus is basically NOT saved and will be told to 'depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you'.
So after my sister sends this website insinuating that I am bound for hell, she calls me up and asks if i checked out the link she sent. ANd then asks what I thought..so I Told her that it was works based and also told her to read Col. 2 and Gal 2...she didn't take kindly to that, and insisted that those versers were misinterperited.
funny thing...she never mentions the laws about TITHING, though....
sigh....
totally frustrating....
Regular Member
I don't believe that a Christian is any less faithful for celebrating Jesus's resurrection on Easter or closer to the time of Passover. It's the fact that we praise Him and rejoice in His resurrection that matters. If we argue dates and rituals and this and that, we start focusing on the outside, we become more like the Pharisees who wanted to do what looked right in the eyes of others rather than giving their hearts fully to God. It's that heart condition that matters to Christ. Not this day or that day, this food or that food, etc.
Regular Member
I've had similar experiences with many in the so called "Hebrew Roots" movement. The teachings in that movement are very legalistic - many believing the entire Mosaic Law continues and that we should all live effectively as Orthodox Jews, except for accepting Christ as the Messiah. The problem is that teaching ignores significant portions of NT teachings in the epistles regarding the fulfillment of the law by Christ, the purpose of the law as a tudor until christ, the law being a shadow of things to come, etc.This is an interesting conversation.
My sister has started going to a Messianic church, and since then has decided that Church on Sunday, Easter, Christmas, eating pork, etc., are all huge no-no's. She sent me a link to a website called Too Long in the Sun, regarding pagan stuff that's influenced christianity...
in essence, this website promotes a works-based salvation, and insinuates that anyone who does not celebrate the Sabbath on Saturday as was commanded in Exodus is basically NOT saved and will be told to 'depart from me you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you'.
So after my sister sends this website insinuating that I am bound for hell, she calls me up and asks if i checked out the link she sent. ANd then asks what I thought..so I Told her that it was works based and also told her to read Col. 2 and Gal 2...she didn't take kindly to that, and insisted that those versers were misinterperited.
funny thing...she never mentions the laws about TITHING, though....
sigh....
totally frustrating....
Regards,
Brian
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
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This is often described as "Galatianism," as that is what the Galatians did - put themselves back under the law.
RObbison,
I didn't know it actually had a name.
Do you know if all messianic churches/synagogs believe this?
I am not even sure if she got this from her new 'church' or if she just decided it herself...she seems to like to play the better christian than thou card alot.
and frankly, it causes people to run the opposite way.
one minute she is totally for THIS and the next, she's condemning THIS like its the plague.
Take for instance BEnny Hinn. She was totally into him. I sent her a bunch of stuff showing his true nature and the stuff he has said, etc., and now she acts like she was NEVER Into him...like she ALWAYS knew there was "something" not right.
I don't believe that a Christian is any less faithful for celebrating Jesus's resurrection on Easter or closer to the time of Passover. It's the fact that we praise Him and rejoice in His resurrection that matters. If we argue dates and rituals and this and that, we start focusing on the outside, we become more like the Pharisees who wanted to do what looked right in the eyes of others rather than giving their hearts fully to God. It's that heart condition that matters to Christ. Not this day or that day, this food or that food, etc.
Regular Member
No - not all messianic synagogues and Churches. There are many in the messianic community (Jewish and Gentile) who worship with Jewish traditions but who do not believe the Mosaic law continues (other than the 10 commandments). But there are some who take a much more legalistic view of Matthew 5:17 to mean that literally the entire Torah continues because "not all was fulfilled" yet. Its hard to reconcile that view with NT scripture. For example, what purpose could there be for an ongoing levitical priesthood when we have Chirst, our high priest in the order of Melchezidek who is greater than any levitical priest? Why re-create the veil in the temple separating Israel from God if Christ tore the veil giving us direct access to God through Christ? Why wear the law on our farheads (tefillan) and post it on our doorposts (Mezuzzah) if Christ has written His law in our hearts? Why reinstitute animal sacrafics (if/when the temple is rebuilt) when Christ is are once and for all sacrifice? Why subject ourselves to the Law when Christ has freed us from the Law and nailed it to the cross?RObbison,
I didn't know it actually had a name.
Do you know if all messianic churches/synagogs believe this?
I am not even sure if she got this from her new 'church' or if she just decided it herself...she seems to like to play the better christian than thou card alot.
and frankly, it causes people to run the opposite way.
one minute she is totally for THIS and the next, she's condemning THIS like its the plague.
Take for instance BEnny Hinn. She was totally into him. I sent her a bunch of stuff showing his true nature and the stuff he has said, etc., and now she acts like she was NEVER Into him...like she ALWAYS knew there was "something" not right.
Regards,
Brian
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
i agree with your post.
one thing about the ten commandments is that whole saturday sabbath (although for me it is pretty much cleared up in col. 2)...
anyway.
just sad and frustrating that she has decided not only to put herself back under the law, but others as well....
okay.
sorry for the derail.
back to topic!
When it comes to worship, a little leaven does spoil the whole lump. However, the secular is by its very nature already spoiled. This is why I condemn Christmas as a religious holiday. It is not based in truth (as it declares a day for Jesus' birth which by most accounts is highly unlikely and by my own determination impossible) nor does it have any sort of biblical authority. I have less of a problem with it as a secular celebration and a time for family to get together and even to celebrate Christ as we should at all times anyway.
Now on Easter, I really have a problem with the name and prefer those celebrations that call it Resurrection Day. As for the day it is celebrated it is close enough I guess (especially given how out of whack the Gregorian calendar is). I wish that instead we would celebrate the true day that Jesus rose, which is the biblical holiday First Fruits.
Now for Halloween, if one is involved in it as a secular celebration I don't have much of a problem with it given that it is a day for kids to dress up and get candy and nothing more.
The Law has not ended and it is still in full effect as it has been since its inception except for all those that are in Christ. Now, you are right about 'some' in the Hebrew Roots movement. It didn't start out that way, but it has seemed to drift in that direction. This is typical of every legitimate 'movement' I know of in the church. It starts well and addresses real issues, but then it becomes self involved and goes too far. However, I have also known many to not understand what those in the Hebrew Roots movement are doing and call out "legalism" without any true basis.
I think Matt. 5:17-18 is clear that the Law has not and will not pass away until heaven and earth itself pass away. But, I think you misinterpret the consequences of that. First I want to be very clear that no one in Christ is under the Law. But, the Law still serves to condemn as it always has. This is why it is instrumental in driving the unsaved to Christ. It was created so that sins might abound, in other words so people would know just how sinful they truly are. It is guilt of sin that convinces us of the need for a Savior. Thus it drives the sinner into the arms of Christ.
For those in Christ, there has indeed been a change in law (Heb. 7:12); for He is our High Priest. We have been set free from the old letter of the Law and now serve in spirit and in truth.
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Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
We have been set free from the old law. We don't follow it anymore, it is there as a tutor not for us to follow. As far as Christian Holidays:
5 In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. 6 Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God
Romans 14:5-6
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