Big Bubba - The Holidays Threads Merged

[Sassy Granny]

does the Bible mention believers observing the sabbath after Christ's rising?

No ... the apostles and disciples taught/evangelized on the Sabbath which clearly put them in harm's way with the observant crowd.

From http://www.gotquestions.org/Saturday-Sunday.html
we have this:


Question: "What day is the Sabbath, Saturday or Sunday? Do Christians have to observe the Sabbath day?"

Answer: It is often claimed that "God instituted the Sabbath in Eden" because of the connection between the Sabbath and creation in Exodus 20:11. Although God's rest on the seventh day (Genesis 2:3) did foreshadow a future Sabbath law, there is no biblical record of the Sabbath before the children of Israel left the land of Egypt. Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that Sabbath-keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a special sign between God and Israel: "And Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain, saying, "Thus you shall say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 'You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings and brought you to Myself. Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine'" (Exodus 19:3–5).

“Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed” (Exodus 31:16–17).

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the ten commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deuteronomy 5:15).

Notice the word therefore. God's intent for giving the Sabbath to Israel was not that they would remember creation, but that they would remember their Egyptian slavery and the Lord's deliverance. Note the requirements for Sabbath-keeping: A person placed under that Sabbath law could not leave his home on the Sabbath (Exodus 16:29), he could not build a fire (Exodus 35:3), and he could not cause anyone else to work (Deuteronomy 5:14). A person breaking the Sabbath law was to be put to death (Exodus 31:15; Numbers 15:32–35).

An examination of New Testament passages shows us four important points: 1) Whenever Christ appears in His resurrected form and the day is mentioned, it is always the first day of the week (Matthew 28:1, 9, 10; Mark 16:9; Luke 24:1, 13, 15; John 20:19, 26). 2) The only time the Sabbath is mentioned from Acts through Revelation it is for evangelistic purposes to the Jews and the setting is usually in a synagogue (Acts chapters 13–18). Paul wrote, "to the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might win Jews" (1 Corinthians 9:20). Paul did not go to the synagogue to fellowship with and edify the saints, but to convict and save the lost. 3) Once Paul states "from now on I will go to the Gentiles" (Acts 18:6), the Sabbath is never again mentioned. And 4) instead of suggesting adherence to the Sabbath day, the remainder of the New Testament implies the opposite (including the one exception to point 3 above, found in Colossians 2:16).

Looking more closely at point 4 above will reveal that there is no obligation for the New Testament believer to keep the Sabbath, and will also show that the idea of a Sunday "Christian Sabbath" is also unscriptural. As discussed above, there is one time the Sabbath is mentioned after Paul began to focus on the Gentiles, "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ" (Colossians 2:16–17). The Jewish Sabbath was abolished at the cross where Christ "wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us" (Colossians 2:14).

This idea is repeated more than once in the New Testament: "One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it" (Romans 14:5–6a). "But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years" (Galatians 4:9–10).

But some claim that a mandate by Constantine in A.D. 321 "changed" the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. On what day did the early church meet for worship? Scripture never mentions any Sabbath (Saturday) gatherings by believers for fellowship or worship. However, there are clear passages that mention the first day of the week. For instance, Acts 20:7 states that "on the first day of the week the disciples came together to break bread." In 1 Corinthians 16:2 Paul urges the Corinthian believers "on the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper." Since Paul designates this offering as "service" in 2 Corinthians 9:12, this collection must have been linked with the Sunday worship service of the Christian assembly. Historically Sunday, not Saturday, was the normal meeting day for Christians in the church, and its practice dates back to the first century.

The Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church. The Sabbath is still Saturday, not Sunday, and has never been changed. But the Sabbath is part of the Old Testament Law, and Christians are free from the bondage of the Law (Galatians 4:1-26; Romans 6:14). Sabbath keeping is not required of the Christian—be it Saturday or Sunday. The first day of the week, Sunday, the Lord's Day (Revelation 1:10) celebrates the New Creation, with Christ as our resurrected Head. We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving. The Apostle Paul said that each individual Christian should decide whether to observe a Sabbath rest, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Romans 14:5). We are to worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

[lavender]

Sassy, Sassy, Sassy,
Speak Lord! My words don"t work!

Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

[lavender]

does the Bible mention believers observing the sabbath after Christ's rising?

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Act 17:2 And according to Paul's custom, he went in to them and reasoned with them out of the Scriptures on three sabbaths,

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


If you think the sabbath has been done away with or replaced by the day of the sun, then how do you reconcile this prophecy;

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Has this taken place? Has a flesh come to worship before the LORD?

[Holy_Loved]

Well, that's good to know. Both the argument you gave for not celebrating birthdays parties AND the concern you have for Christmas are exactly the same as JW cult members... so I was concerned. I remember when the JW lady was visiting me (a VERY sweet lady, by the way, I did enjoy her visits and I was NOT saved at the time) and telling me why they didn't allow their children to celebrate birthdays... I told her, "Well, that's the first rule at our birthday parties, NO MURDERS!"

In His love,

Gotta say I love your sense of humor!!

[Sassy Granny]

Speak Lord! My words don"t work!

Lavender, I totally get that you have a completely different doctrinal position than do I. I do get your words, and I don't mean to be contentious. You appear to be fully convinced, and I rather doubt that any apologetic - be it form Tio, HeIsEnough, Buzzardhut, me or any other - would be sufficient to challenge your position. I'm OK with that; I just happen to believe it's bondage.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath; He is my Sabbath-rest. In Him my Sabbath is today, now - be that Tuesday, or Thursday evening, or ........

Bless you!
Kathleen


Question: "Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?"

Answer: In Colossians 2:16-17, the Apostle Paul declared, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” Similarly, Romans 14:5 says, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Sabbath-keeping is an issue on which God’s Word instructs us not to judge each other. Sabbath-keeping is a matter that each and every Christian needs to by fully convinced of in his/her own mind.

In the early chapters of the Book of Acts, the first Christians were predominantly Jews. When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts chapter 15). The decision was, “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to enforce on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was still God’s command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day.

A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship. Groups such as the Seventh Day Adventists holds that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day (Exodus 20:8-11). Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath day commanded to be the day of worship. Yes, Jews in Old Testament, New Testament, and modern times use Saturday as the day of worship, but that is not the essence of the Sabbath command. In the Book of Acts, whenever a meeting is said to be on the Sabbath, it is a meeting of Jews, not Christians.

When did the early Christians meet? Acts 2:46-47 gives us the answer, “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.” If there was a day that Christians met regularly, it was the first day of the week (our Sunday), not the Sabbath day (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2). In honor of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday, the early Christians observed Sunday, not as the “Christian Sabbath,” but as a day to especially worship and glorify Jesus Christ.

Is there anything wrong with worshipping on Saturday, the Sabbath? Absolutely not! We should worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday! Many churches today have both Saturday and Sunday services. There is freedom in Christ (Romans 8:21; 2 Corinthians 3:17; Galatians 5:1). Should a Christian practice Sabbath-keeping, that is, not working on Saturdays? If a Christian feels led to do so, absolutely, yes (Romans 14:5). However, those who choose to practice Sabbath-keeping should not judge those who do not keep the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16). Further, those who do not keep the Sabbath should avoid being a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 8:9) to those who do keep the Sabbath. Galatians 5:13-15 sums up the whole issue, “You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other."

Source: gotquestions.com

[Anddra]

Lavender, I totally get that you have a completely different doctrinal position than do I. I do get your words, and I don't mean to be contentious. You appear to be fully convinced, and I rather doubt that any apologetic - be it form Tio, HeIsEnough, Buzzardhut, me or any other - would be sufficient to challenge your position. I'm OK with that; I just happen to believe it's bondage.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath; He is my Sabbath-rest. In Him my Sabbath is today, now - be that Tuesday, or Thursday evening, or ........

Bless you!
Kathleen

It is bondage, Kathleen.

And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Acts 15:6-10 (KJV)

[HeIsEnough]

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath

Amen SG.

lavender,

[06] Do not promote false teachings , false prophets, heretical movements, paganism, ritualism, Third Wave Latter Rain, Words of Faith (WOF), Words of Knowledge (WOK), extra biblical teachings from television ministers, Vineyard teachings, Dominion theology, Soul Sleep, Signs & Wonders, Gospel to the Stars, Toronto Blessings, I.H.O.Prayer, 7th Day (Sabbath) keeping, liturgy of works and practices for obtaining and maintaining salvation, ecumenism, false scriptures such as the Pseudepigrapha , Apocrypha, Bible codes, Ufology, Inccubi, Succubi, Angelic procreation and cloning, demon seeds, or any other extra biblical preoccupations with demonic and extrasensory beliefs.
Do not post from television teachers entangled in any of the above such as TBN, Perry Stone, Todd Bentley, J. R. Church, Rick Warren, etc...

You've had your say and we have given you the scriptural truth of the matter. You've spied out our freedom here and we've given you enough to ponder on, along with searching this forum for more information.

Here is the final one to end this conversation for you in a thread not about the Sabbath.

Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

We are gentiles, we are in the dispensation of grace.

Back to topic.

[lavender]

Lavender, I totally get that you have a completely different doctrinal position than do I. I do get your words, and I don't mean to be contentious. You appear to be fully convinced, and I rather doubt that any apologetic - be it form Tio, HeIsEnough, Buzzardhut, me or any other - would be sufficient to challenge your position. I'm OK with that; I just happen to believe it's bondage.

Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath; He is my Sabbath-rest. In Him my Sabbath is today, now - be that Tuesday, or Thursday evening, or ........

Bless you!
Kathleen


Question: "Does God require Sabbath-keeping of Christians?"

Answer: In Colossians 2:16-17, the Apostle Paul declared, “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.” Similarly, Romans 14:5 says, “One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.” These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is a matter of spiritual freedom, not a command from God. Sabbath-keeping is an issue on which God’s Word instructs us not to judge each other. Sabbath-keeping is a matter that each and every Christian needs to by fully convinced of in his/her own mind.

In the early chapters of the Book of Acts, the first Christians were predominantly Jews. When Gentiles began to receive the gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, the Jewish Christians had a dilemma. What aspects of the Mosaic Law and Jewish tradition should Gentile Christians be instructed to obey? The apostles met and discussed the issue in the Jerusalem council (Acts chapter 15). The decision was, “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood” (Acts 15:19-20). Sabbath-keeping was not one of the commands the apostles felt was necessary to enforce on Gentile believers. It is inconceivable that the apostles would neglect to include Sabbath-keeping if it was still God’s command for Christians to observe the Sabbath day.

A common error in the Sabbath-keeping debate is the concept that the Sabbath was the day of worship. Groups such as the Seventh Day Adventists holds that God requires the church service to be held on Saturday, the Sabbath day. That is not what the Sabbath command was. The Sabbath command was to do no work on the Sabbath day (Exodus 20:8-11). Nowhere in Scripture is the Sabbath day commanded to be the day of worship. Yes, Jews in Old Testament, New Testament, and modern times use Saturday as the day of worship, but that is not the essence of the Sabbath command. In the Book of Acts, whenever a meeting is said to be on the Sabbath, it is a meeting of Jews, not Christians.

When did the early Christians meet? Acts 2:46-47 gives us the answer, “Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.” If there was a day that Christians met regularly, it was the first day of the week (our Sunday), not the Sabbath day (Acts 20:7; 1 Corinthians 16:2). In honor of Christ’s resurrection on Sunday, the early Christians observed Sunday, not as the “Christian Sabbath,” but as a day to especially worship and glorify Jesus Christ.

Is there anything wrong with worshipping on Saturday, the Sabbath? Absolutely not! We should worship God every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday! Many churches today have both Saturday and Sunday services. There is freedom in Christ (Romans 8:21; 2 Corinthians 3:17; Galatians 5:1). Should a Christian practice Sabbath-keeping, that is, not working on Saturdays? If a Christian feels led to do so, absolutely, yes (Romans 14:5). However, those who choose to practice Sabbath-keeping should not judge those who do not keep the Sabbath (Colossians 2:16). Further, those who do not keep the Sabbath should avoid being a stumbling block (1 Corinthians 8:9) to those who do keep the Sabbath. Galatians 5:13-15 sums up the whole issue, “You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other."

Source: gotquestions.com

As much as I would love to respond to "gotquestions" point by point, it would be against the rules for me to do so, as only certain views are allowed here. So I have agreed to cease and desist from discussing the Sabbath.

lavender

[Buzzardhut]

As much as I would love to respond to "gotquestions" point by point, it would be against the rules for me to do so, as only certain views are allowed here. So I have agreed to cease and desist from discussing the Sabbath.

lavender

good idea

[My Abba's Child]

Sassy, Sassy, Sassy,
Speak Lord! My words don"t work!

Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

If you keep My commandments, you shall abide in My love... words of Jesus, our Lord and our God. YET, what were Jesus' commandments? 1. Love the Lord your God with all your mind, all your heart, all your soul and all your strength, 2. love your neighbor as yourself, 3. love one another (fellow believers) as Christ loves you. UPON THESE hangs the whole of the Law. THESE things are what we, as Christians, are called to "observe".

In His love,

[Tio-Peregrino]

Christ came not to terminate the law;

So the Mosaic Law is still in effect? Where do we read that Paul applies the Mosaic Law specifically to a congregation of people after Pentecost???

Matthew 5:17 has largely been misused to imply that the Law of Moses is still in effect today. Taking that verse out of its context simply isn't good, and actually confuses the issue greatly. I'll have to respond again when I have ample time to go into detail.

[Tio-Peregrino]

Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Luk 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

Act 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

Act 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

Act 17:2 And according to Paul's custom, he went in to them and reasoned with them out of the Scriptures on three sabbaths,

Act 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.


If you think the sabbath has been done away with or replaced by the day of the sun, then how do you reconcile this prophecy;

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Has this taken place? Has a flesh come to worship before the LORD?

Colossians 2:16 -- to be balanced you must take this into account, Lavender.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone's saying that the Sabbath has been done away with. It exists...it's Saturday. Observance of that particularly day is not mandatory for the Christian.

You are very preoccupied with the letter of the Mosaic Law. The Sabbath was the seal of the Mosaic Law. God commanded Israel to observe it...to remember their slavery in Egypt. Were you a slave in Egypt? I don't think so. We can praise the Lord on Mondays, Wednesdays, or Sundays, or even on Saturday evening as the Church as Troas did in Acts. God wants our contrite hearts (Psalm 51)...not vain observances. We can come before the Lord whenever. It's wrong of you to call those of us who attend Church on Sunday to be worshippers of the Sun. It's tantamount to your implication that I worship the Christmas tree as an idol.

[lavender]

If you keep My commandments, you shall abide in My love... words of Jesus, our Lord and our God. YET, what were Jesus' commandments? 1. Love the Lord your God with all your mind, all your heart, all your soul and all your strength, 2. love your neighbor as yourself, 3. love one another (fellow believers) as Christ loves you. UPON THESE hangs the whole of the Law. THESE things are what we, as Christians, are called to "observe".

In His love,

Yes, by love we fulfill the law, by loving God and loving people, absolutetly correct. And because the word "love" is quite vague, the Lord made sure we understood what love is;

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

It looks to me like the Ten Commandments stand.


Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

[Tio-Peregrino]

does the Bible mention believers observing the sabbath after Christ's rising?

What matters even more, I would say, is that which took place after Pentecost. The ekklesia...the Church came into being on Pentecost. And I think it's been reitterated here that one can attend church on any day. The Sabbath was the seal of the Mosaic Law...like circumcision was the seal of the Abrahamic Covenant...like the rainbow was the seal of the Noahic Covenant.

There was no Sabbath observance from Adam to Moses. It's not mentioned at all. Many folks who give up with the Scripture regardin the Sabbath in the Mosaic Law usually divert to the Creation...and call it a Creation ordinance. However, if it was a Creation ordinance then both Gentiles and Jews would be observing it. And obviously the Gentiles did not observe it...it was one more way that the Lord made Israel special unto Himself. In fact, the word Sabbath is first found when its written of in the Mosaic Law...not at the time of Creation.

"And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day" (Deuteronomy 5:15).

But this thread is not about the Sabbath. So I'll shush...

[Tio-Peregrino]

Yes, by love we fulfill the law, by loving God and loving people, absolutetly correct. And because the word "love" is quite vague, the Lord made sure we understood what love is;

It's not the Mosaic Law, though.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

It looks to me like the Ten Commandments stand.

Similarity does not mean that they are the same. It was wrong to kill back at the time of Cain and Abel. They lived long before the Mosaic Law was given. We live under the New Covenant...

1 Corinthians 11:25

Furthermore, Paul called the New Covenant the "law of the life-giving Spirit" in Romans 8:2 as opposed to the "law of sin and death." Pretty stark contrast there. He's referring to the New...not the Mosaic.

Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

This is a judgement of God on Jerusalem...not sure how you're trying to utilize it for your purposes here.

[lavender]

So the Mosaic Law is still in effect? Where do we read that Paul applies the Mosaic Law specifically to a congregation of people after Pentecost???

Matthew 5:17 has largely been misused to imply that the Law of Moses is still in effect today. Taking that verse out of its context simply isn't good, and actually confuses the issue greatly. I'll have to respond again when I have ample time to go into detail.

In context;

Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So, in context it says something different than "Think not that I am come to destroy the law"? And the heaven and earth thing, what does that reeeally mean?

Let's be clear, the sacrificial law has been superseded by a better covenant through the blood of Christ, the book of Hebrews is very clear on that. Furthermore, we are not under the letter of the law but rather the spirit. It's not only still a sin to commit adultery, "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. " Mat 5:28 How can this be so hard to comprehend?


Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

[lavender]

Colossians 2:16 -- to be balanced you must take this into account, Lavender.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone's saying that the Sabbath has been done away with. It exists...it's Saturday. Observance of that particularly day is not mandatory for the Christian.

You are very preoccupied with the letter of the Mosaic Law. The Sabbath was the seal of the Mosaic Law. God commanded Israel to observe it...to remember their slavery in Egypt. Were you a slave in Egypt? I don't think so. We can praise the Lord on Mondays, Wednesdays, or Sundays, or even on Saturday evening as the Church as Troas did in Acts. God wants our contrite hearts (Psalm 51)...not vain observances. We can come before the Lord whenever. It's wrong of you to call those of us who attend Church on Sunday to be worshippers of the Sun. It's tantamount to your implication that I worship the Christmas tree as an idol.

Incorrect Tio, I'm preoccupied with truth. However, I'm responding to this post to ask you if you are trying to goad me into answering on a subject I've been warned about?


Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

[Sassy Granny]

If the keeping of Sabbath (whether the day or the associated observances) were for today, then there's a prescription for what that "keeping" looks like. No thank you!

http://www.torah.org/advanced/shulch...carchives.html

[icebear]

thank God for grace, eh?

[HeIsEnough]

Isa 28:17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

Lets just drop the Sabbath issue, and lets also keep in check the exceptionally damning scriptures like the one above, others can be pointed back at you just as easily. Resorting to methods like that is not so good.