More info and the book of Enoch here: http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/enoch.htm
a worker in wood
Nephilim, Demons, Cloning, Aliens, UFOs
More info and the book of Enoch here: http://www.heaven.net.nz/writings/enoch.htm
Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
The trouble is men are not willing to let the Scriptures say what they want to say. This is largely due to their training, environment, prejudice, or desire to make the Scriptures teach some favorite doctrine.
Rev Clarence Larkin
http://www.mbn.org/GenMoody/listenli...n=WMBW&rate=32
"that were the result of fallen angels having children with human females
Im sorry Im lost !!!!!
I watched a DVD that adopts this theory. Not very convincing though, God would not have permitted such a thing to occur to the human race. right?!
In Tent City
God did not permit it, which is why the fallen angels who committed these crimes are chained and awaiting judgment in the outer darkness.Originally Posted by George
2 Peter 2:4
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked
8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)—
9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,
10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority
"This rock in Horeb was typical of Christ" and its yielding water when struck by Moses signifies "that the Mediator must receive the blows of the law, before he could be the source of salvation to a parched and perishing world." ~ Henry Melvill
all Scripture says is ''there were giants in those days
and the sons of God took for wives the daughters of men
then some one came along and connected the dots so to speak
only problem is scripture is silent about this
so we end up with an interesting hypothesis grounded in conjecture
plausible i suppose but not confirmed by scripture imo
Waiting on the Trumpet
This is an excerpt from a lecture and slide show that I did on a Biblical Response to the UFO Phenomenon. Naturally I lay a foundation from Genesis 6 to jump off of (that's why this will refer to UFO's)...but the meat of the discussion about Genesis 6 should be helpful...
(btw...I can provide the who study for anyone interested)
Genesis chapter six speaks very plainly of some very strange events going on in man’s early history. I understand that this subject is not without controversy, however, it is extremely important to understand in order to gain the proper perspective of what is going on today. This is especially true when looking at the UFO phenomenon.
Genesis 6
1Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
3And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
4There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
The term "the sons of God", or the “B’nai-Elohim”, appears 5 times in the Old Testament, each time clearly referring to angels (Genesis 6:2, 6:4, Job 1:6, 2:1 and 38:7). It is never used of men, or chosen people of God. In the New Testament the term appears 6 times, each time referring to the lost being restored back to God’s children (John 1:2, Romans 8:14, 8:19, Philippians 2:15, I John 3:1 and 3:2). The New Testament “sons of God” is an entirely different wording so you cannot make it the same in the Old.
The strange events recorded in Genesis six were clearly understood by the ancient rabbinical sources as referring to fallen angels. References can be found from Septuagint translators, the Early Church Fathers, the Talmud, Josephus, the Scroll of Enoch and the Genesis Apocrypha (both of which were among the first of the Dead Sea Scrolls found).
The Sons of God were procreating weird hybrid offspring with human women known as the "Nephilim.", or “the fallen ones”. These bizarre events are also echoed in the legends and myths of every ancient culture upon the earth: the ancient Greeks, the Egyptians, the Hindus, the South Sea Islanders, the American Indians, and virtually all the others.
It was in the 5th century A.D. that the "angel" interpretation of Genesis six was increasingly viewed as an embarrassment when attacked by critics and the Sethite view was born. This view teaches that the godly line of Seth became unfaithful to God, and began to marry the daughters of the ungodly line of Cain. I think that if this were the case, then the Holy Spirit would have said, "the sons of Seth and the daughters of Cain" in order to minimize the confusion. Also, the Bible consistently uses the term "sons of men" when referring to mankind in the Old Testament.
While the early church writers, Celsus and Julian the Apostate, used the traditional "angel" belief to attack Christianity, Julius Africanus resorted to the Sethite interpretation as a more comfortable ground to view this passage of Scripture. Augustine also embraced the Sethite theory and thus it prevailed into the Middle Ages. Furthermore, the worship of angels had begun within the church and the "angel" view of Genesis six was feared as impacting these views. Once again we see man and his attempt to change what he doesn’t feel comfortable with in God’s holy Word.
A small clue to this whole story may lie in this verse from Genesis 6:9
"These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God."
The word for "generations" in this passage is actually two different words. The first time is the word, towldah {to-led-aw'}, which refers to lineage or descendants. The second word is dowr {dore}, which refers to periods of time, or those living during a period of time. The real key is the word "perfect" when referring to his generations. It is the Hebrew word, tamiym {taw-meem'} which means, "without blemish, perfect, upright, without spot, or complete".
The emphasis of these three words is on the fact that he was genetically pure. Neither Noah, nor his family line, had participated in the events that were going on in those days. They were untainted by the sexual escapades of the sons of God.
Here are some very specific points to consider regarding the Genesis 6 interpretation and its opposing views. Let the Bible translate itself, and let logic, grammar and reason prevail over fear and emotion.
1) Verse 1 refers to “men” in general and the daughters born unto them. There is no sub-set spoken of here. The Septuagint literally translates it “the daughters of Adam”. No mention of Seth or Cain.
2)Seth was not God and Cain was not Adam!
3)The Nephilim are literally called “the Fallen ones” in Hebrew. The Greek word is “Gigas”, from which we get the English word giant. Now they happened to be large men, however the literal meaning of the word is, “Earth-Born”.
4)The Nephilim and their spawn are always male, i.e., “the mighty men of renown”. No women of renown.
5)No daughters of God are mentioned. Did Seth only have Y Chromosomes?
6)There are no sub-sets of peoples mentioned prior to Genesis 11, not until after the Tower of Babel incident.
7) If the Sethites were so godly, why did they perish in the flood? Only Enoch and Noah were counted as godly, thus they were spared. Some of Cain’s descendants were named after God (Gen.4:18), so his line had both godly and ungodly just as Seth’s did.
The Nephilim were the strange hybrids of the events of Genesis 6. Because of this particular wickedness it is apparent that the reason for the judgment by the Flood was needed. In Genesis 6:4 we find the phrase, “...and also after that....” regarding the Nephilim. Apparently they were still around after the period before the Flood.
The Scriptures reveal that there was a recurrence of those early events that resulted in giants appearing in the Old Testament. There were a number of tribes in the land of Canaan such as the Rephaim, the Emim, the Horim, the Anakim and the Zamsummim that are described as giants. Later, we find Goliath and his four brothers in I Samuel 17.
All these can be found in Genesis 14:5, Genesis 15:20, Deuteronomy 2:10-12, 20-22, Deuteronomy 3:11, Numbers 13:33, Joshua 12:4; 13:12, Joshua 14:15; 15:13; 21:11.
I borrowed this paragraph from Chuck Missler’s “Alien Encounters” pg.212-213 that sums it up pretty well…
“When God had revealed to Abraham that the land of Canaan was to be given to him, Satan then had over 400 years to plant his "mine field" of Nephilim in his attempt to thwart the plan of God.
When Moses sent his twelve spies to reconnoiter the Land of Canaan, they came back with the report of giants in the land (The Hebrew term used was Nephilim). Their fear of those terrifying creatures resulted in their being relegated to wandering in the wilderness for 38 years. When Joshua and the nation Israel later entered the land of Canaan, they were instructed to wipe out every man, woman and child of certain tribes. That strikes us as disturbingly severe. It would seem that in the Land of Canaan, there once again was a "gene pool problem."
These Rephaim, Nephilim, and others seem to have been established as an advance guard to obstruct Israel’s possession of the Promised Land. Was this also a stratagem of Satan?
Jesus warned us, "But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." - Matthew 24:37
This is one of the reasons why some conjecture that the UFO phenomena may be a contemporary manifestation of a recurrence of these same hybrids.”
Jesus you are my rescue!
The "angel" theory gives these fallen angels the power of creating cells containing human life, with which to impregnate human women. Creation belongs only to God.
If the fallen angels possessed the bodies of human men, then we are still left with the question - where did the giants come from?
New Member
I will give you what I believe. I cannot prove it, but it is what makes the most sense tom me. I don't buy the angels and ufo theory because it is just to bizarre. First of all, angels and humans are 2 different creatures and cannot reproduce. Second of all, Jesus tells us in the gospels, that angels do not marry and most likely don't even reproduce amonst themselves. Most convincingly though, is if angels were reproducing with human females then why would God be mad at mankind.
1Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
3And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
4There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Angels are powerful creatures. If they could and wanted to have sex with women, what could we do to stop them. God wouldn't be upset with us.
So, if the giants didn't come from fallen angels then where did they come from.
I believe that the mark of Cain was that God turned him into a giant. The mark had to be something that would keep people from killing him and if you are twice as big as every one else this would definitely be a deterent.
So the Sons of God would not be fallen angels but simply men from the Godly lineage of Seth marrying the daughters of men or daughters of the ungodly lineage of Cain. What God was upset with was this:
2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
Godly men were begininng to sin by exercising their will over God's will and being unequally yoked and polluted by ungodly people. Sin spread and ran rampant and because of the spreading of Cain's DNA there were more giants all over the place.
Once again, I cannot prove this but it makes the most sense to me.
Waiting on the Trumpet
I would add a caution here, for anyone who cares....
This is pretty fringe stuff at first glance. If you go to the passage in Genesis 6 WITHOUT ANY PRESUPPOSITIONS or desire to tear it apart, the words clearly speak for themselves. It is pretty clear in the rule of first mention. Sons of God are angels. Period. The rest of the passage says what it says. You can isogete it anyway you want because that's everyone's right in this relativistic, post-modern age.
I personally choose to believe what it says and I use other ancient resources to see how it was believed for thousands of years before the Church changed it. The Dead Sea Scrolls back it up, Josephus backs it up and 2 references are made to it in the New Testament as well. If I was using the same resources to back up a view about Christ, or soteriology, or Echatology, most people would be like, "Yeah...that's right! They knew what was up!" But, because it's used for the plain text interpretation of Genesis 6, people feel free to reject it on their personal grounds.
I have no problem with it because I know how to read the Bible and resist the urge to insert my view because I don't like what it says. Read the passage and let it speak for itself.
Jesus you are my rescue!
I think Guy4God is on target here. I'm also in agreement with Missler, Renald Showers and others on the fallen angel interpretation. Even Steve Quayle (who I normally wouldn't recommend) has an interesting book on the subject.
But as already suggested by kenod I can't see how fallen angles would have the power to create entirely new beings (that is God's ability alone) I can imagine though that they would have had the power (knowledge) to create new bodies.
They might have "known" the women by experimenting on them, removing genetic material which they could then manipulate with their own and use to impregnate the woman which gave birth to essentially soulless, empty vessels that were then inhabited by other fallen angles.
This also eerily parallels the stories we hear today about alien abduction and experimentation, not to mention our own new genetic engineering research, cloning and surrogate mothers.
I believe that fallen angles posing as aliens will play a large part in the delusion and deceptions of the tribulation. Perhaps they will simply be up to there same old tricks.
"And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their
own habitation, he [God] hath reserved in everlasting chains under
darkness unto the judgement of the great day. Even as Sodom and
Gomorrah and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves
over to fornication, and going after strange flesh...." -- Jude 6-7
I just have to stop you right there... This is a logically flawed position from the get-go. I don't want to sound harsh... but you should not ever base a conclusion on something as subjective as "it is just too bizarre." Something is only "bizarre" because of our preconceived notions about what is "normal" - which is entirely subjective.
To an athiest the very existence of Angels and Demons, Satan and God seems "bizarre".... That doesn't make it not true.
The truth of a claim should always be evaluated based on the evidence. Not on how the most obvious conclusion makes us feel.
How do you know that? Have you studied angel 'dna' recently? How do you know they cannot reproduce?First of all, angels and humans are 2 different creatures and cannot reproduce.
First, Jesus said the angels in heaven do not marry. As I'm sure you are aware, even humans are capable of reproduction without marriage. Also, Jesus was speaking of the angels - not of fallen angels. It is entirely possible that fallen angels have the ability to so pervert their own nature as to mate with human women.Second of all, Jesus tells us in the gospels, that angels do not marry and most likely don't even reproduce amonst themselves. Most convincingly though, is if angels were reproducing with human females then why would God be mad at mankind.
Second, God could be mad at mankind even if part of the blame was to be cast at the feet of the fallen angels. Also, God dealt with the angels too - he put them in prison. IMO, God punished all responsible parties. Further, there was an increase in godlessness due to the bad influence of the fallen angels - something humans were responsible for, even if the angels push-started it. But also, the gene-pool was polluted and God had to take drastic action. Remember, there have been other times of widespread wickedness on earth, but only one time where God decided to wipe everyone out and start again... IMO, there must have been more reason than just sinfulness.
You're making a lot of assumptions here. How do you know that the angels would not have been forced to stop if the women had told them to? Yes, they are powerfull... but that doesn't necessarily mean that the women could not have excercised some authority over them had they chosen to.1Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,
2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
3And the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years."
4There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.
Angels are powerful creatures. If they could and wanted to have sex with women, what could we do to stop them. God wouldn't be upset with us.
So, if the giants didn't come from fallen angels then where did they come from.
Another assumption is that God wouldn't be upset with mankind because, in essence, the angels would just have raped the women. Well, what if it wasn't rape, though? What if the women were willing? Then, God might be upset...
Furthermore, God hardened Pharaoh's heart and still judged him for it... God is the potter and the clay doesn't get to say "what did you make me for".
How is this any less "bizarre" than the fallen angel theory? I'm serious. It seems much more bizarre to me. Since when does God turn people into giants?I believe that the mark of Cain was that God turned him into a giant. The mark had to be something that would keep people from killing him and if you are twice as big as every one else this would definitely be a deterent.
Okay, well, it's interesting. But it's completely bizarre that you think this theory makes more sense and is not bizarre but the other is.So the Sons of God would not be fallen angels but simply men from the Godly lineage of Seth marrying the daughters of men or daughters of the ungodly lineage of Cain. What God was upset with was this:
2that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.
Godly men were begininng to sin by exercising their will over God's will and being unequally yoked and polluted by ungodly people. Sin spread and ran rampant and because of the spreading of Cain's DNA there were more giants all over the place.
Once again, I cannot prove this but it makes the most sense to me.
This one requires a lot more imagination and a lot less biblical and historical support can be found for it.
JMHO.
Guy4God is right these are angels, period. Jude who quotes the book of Enoch which says the same thing in greater detail. Yes, angels were created to be without "intimacy", this why God locked the away when they left that "state"
Jude 1
And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
2 Peter 2
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
Now if 2 peter happened before the flood why are satan and demons still roaming freely?
Im in full agreement as well. The more I studied the issue and read about and listened to the alien abduction theories I was reminded of the genetic testing the Nazi's did during WWII and now our own Scientists as well as others are playing with the same stuff. satan is up to his same old tricks just a different disquise
When angels appear in human form (which is different to human flesh) they do so at God's command. Angels are spirit beings (Psalm 104:4). And angels do not marry - in the context, it is talking about procreation within marriage (Mat 22:30)
Yes, but the subject matter is about rebellious angels. What they did was in rebellion to the domain in which they were to abide. Adam and Eve were deceived into rebellion, but these angels knew exactly what they were doing and probably how to do it.
I tend to think the fallen angels 'procreated' by mucking about with the women's germ plasm DNA in the egg.. the seed of the woman.. that would be their target, in order to contaminate all of it if they could and thinking they could forestall the advent of the Messiah. Their mucking about probably produced abnormal, frightful, partially human creatures. Are we not hearing today about what are called chimeras? potential living creatures containing DNA from humans and other species - result of mucking about by human scientists?
It does fit well with the weird UFO theme of abduction and sexual implantation that has been rampant for past 10 years or so.
My problem is this interpretation gives the angels power to create the life-bearing cells necessary to fertilize a human ovum. Even if these angels could create a human body, complete in every molecular detail, could they also create the Life contained within the cells that transmit human life? Life is not just a combination of chemicals as the evolutionists try to tell us. Life comes only from God.
Well, I don't know how else to "interpret" Gen. 6. Normal relations between humans don't generate an impure race of 13 foot tall offspring. Having said that, since it isn't a salvation issue everyone's certainly entitled to their own interpretations. I'm comfortable with mine.
inbreeding can result in many gentic defects including an over active purtorarity gland resulting in giantism.
I spent a day or 2 at a website about this, maybe more.
It was fascinating.
Looking back my time could have been better spent reading the online bible, or even many posts here on RR.
(yet here I am again reading about it because, well, giants are interesting)
If there are evil giants loosed on the earth again they probably couldnt rule humans like they did then because we have better weapons now.
Anyone with a good aim could take one of the 23 footers out with a .50 caliber.
