The Blood Moon Theory

[Betty]

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

My preacher says we are born as a baby in water and in the Spirit when we get saved.
The water being that the water must break before the baby comes through the birth canal and the Holy Spirit brings us into a new birth with salvation.
Some people think that it means the gifts of the spirit, but the Bible makes it clear as Christians we all have different gifts. Like Paul says we all can't be an eye or a hand.
Hope this helps.
betty

[Buzzardhut]

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

My preacher says we are born as a baby in water and in the Spirit when we get saved.
The water being that the water must break before the baby comes through the birth canal and the Holy Spirit brings us into a new birth with salvation.
Some people think that it means the gifts of the spirit, but the Bible makes it clear as Christians we all have different gifts. Like Paul says we all can't be an eye or a hand.
Hope this helps.
betty

I've always viewed the "born in water as a baby" a weak explanation.
I've used the same explanation too
I think it has to do with the living water - the word and the gospel

[Angelita]

Are only those that have received the Holy Spirit going to be taken? (I am not asking to debate, I just am seeking knowledge

I think so because the 5 virgins left behind were lacking oil or Holy Spirit. Also on judgement day they say Lord we did this and that in your Name and Jesus says depart from Me ...I never KNEW you.

Also God says in psalms 50 what right have you to preach my word seeing you throw my commandments behind your back. We can't be real Christians with out the Holy Spirit who guides us and leads us into all truth.

[Ali Kat]

To me it makes sense that the rapture, as the harvest of the Church, will be in the fall. Three of the seven feasts that have not been fulfilled yet are in the fall. I believe there are some good arguments for the Feast of Trumpets (a two-day feast) to be fulfilled by the rapture. Now we don't have a clue on the year though! That said, many other Christians think it will be any time of the year or on Pentecost. So either only some of us can know the season or this verse is just about watching signs.

The only problem is which hemisphere's fall would we use? B/c when it is fall in the US, isn't it spring in, say, Australia? And vice versa? It has been awhile since I had the seasons lesson in school, so I might be wrong.

[gotham]

I've been pondering the passages in the bible in Matthew 24:32-41, where it states that no one knows the day or the hour of the coming of Jesus.

The statement: "no one knows the day nor the hour" is an idiom for Rosh Hashanah. This is because the only Jewish Feast day that begins on the first day of the month as the new moon appears is Rosh Hashanah.

In Jesus' day "no one knew the day nor the hour" of the new moon appearing, it had to be observed and reported by two witnesses to the High Priest of the temple before the blowing of the trumpet (Shofar) would announce the beginning of Rosh Hashanah.

Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known. Jeremiah 33:3

[mfa0830]

The only problem is which hemisphere's fall would we use? B/c when it is fall in the US, isn't it spring in, say, Australia? And vice versa? It has been awhile since I had the seasons lesson in school, so I might be wrong.

We'd use the hemisphere that Israel is in. It all revolves around Israel.


When He speaks of spring, I believe he speaks of spring in Israel. Same with day, night, fall, summer, dusk, winter, morning, et al. His point of earthly reference is Israel, and so is mine. IMHO

[metroames]

We'd use the hemisphere that Israel is in. It all revolves around Israel.


When He speaks of spring, I believe he speaks of spring in Israel. Same with day, night, fall, summer, dusk, winter, morning, et al. His point of earthly reference is Israel, and so is mine. IMHO

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[jean]

I am really learning a lot here in RR.

As a result of all the post, i came into a conclusion(Please don't take it as bible truth,this is only my own rationalization).

We read in the bible that we are to pray that the coming of the Lord,will not be in winter and not on sabbath too.(With israel as the reference not any other country).Assuming that this is already the 3 1/2 year of the great tribulation,that the Lord will return the second time for the armageddon,and assuming too that the church was already raptured(therefore the 144,000
is the adressee of the above command on when not to pray for the coming of the Lord.)

With the premises above.Here is my rationalization(in my own opinion).

Maybe the rapture will happen when the 144,000 (who will be sealed for the great tribulation)is already complete(maybe by this time it is not yet complete).This is very difficult to determine,as to the exact time of completion,because those who will be sealed will be those who will accept the Lord Jesus(That is dependent on the man's OWN WILL).

And since the rapture cannot happen without the completion of the 144th jews(because they will be the one who will assume the responsibility to evangelize the left behind unbelievers).

Therefore it is necessary that the G8(minus russia now because it is now G7) becomes G10 first,so that the rise of the AC to whom the G10 will give thier power be fulfilled first,(Then it will rapture)or the other way around(144th completed first or the G10 completed first).Or which ever comes first.The AC's rise in position of a global leader first or the completion of the 144th first before it raptures.


Sorry I am alittle bit confused now, i cannot draw my conclusion now.I am at a lost.

My above premise perhaps is the reason why it is not only difficult to determine the exact day or time,but also impossible for it depends on the 144th. OWN WILL to decide.


I stop here,i am going in circles.

I just have to pray that the 144th be completed or the G10,so that the AC will rise, and then rapture.Which ever comes first,i amquite sure the church will be raptured before the great tribulation.

I am confused(as i have said this is my ratonalization,not to be taken seriously).

We'd use the hemisphere that Israel is in. It all revolves around Israel.


When He speaks of spring, I believe he speaks of spring in Israel. Same with day, night, fall, summer, dusk, winter, morning, et al. His point of earthly reference is Israel, and so is mine. IMHO

[Unworthy]

I must admit, this is all very confusing to me as well. I've seen the videos and stuff about blood moons and such, and if it is true, We still don't know the day or the hour.
Paul said in 1Thes 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. And the Israelites were scattered because they knew not the time of their visitation. Luk 19:44 So, are we obligated to search this out? But if no man knows the day or the hour not even the Son but the Father only, What's the use?

[Buzzardhut]

I must admit, this is all very confusing to me as well. I've seen the videos and stuff about blood moons and such, and if it is true, We still don't know the day or the hour.
Paul said in 1Thes 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. And the Israelites were scattered because they knew not the time of their visitation. Luk 19:44 So, are we obligated to search this out? But if no man knows the day or the hour not even the Son but the Father only, What's the use?

The only problem is which hemisphere's fall would we use? B/c when it is fall in the US, isn't it spring in, say, Australia? And vice versa? It has been awhile since I had the seasons lesson in school, so I might be wrong.

Probably for Israel's side since it's for Israel

[momof3boys]

I have a question/idea. If 'no man knows the day or hour' can refer to Rosh Hoshanah, could 'I come as a thief in the night' also refer to the new moon (completely dark) for the same event? A thief (before the time of electric lights) would be more likely to rob someone when the night is blackest - a new moon. Just a thought.

[Sunny]

Jesus gave up His omniscience for the period of time when he became a man. Things were gradually revealed to Him "as he grew in stature and wisdom."

So when I see that verse about Him not knowing - at that time, it is not surprising to me. However, I believe that once He took His rightful place at the right hand of the Father, he very likely regained His omniscience.

[Joseph The Carpenter]

I found this very interesting http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?...t=day+hour+man

OK, disclaimers: I know this discussion is likely to stir up some controversy, so if you disagree with me please try to keep it civil. Also, please (as always) stay within the rules of the board so that this thread does not get closed. I am interested in some serious discussion on this subject and that can't happen if the thread gets locked. Thanks!

Two of the most oft-quoted verses when it comes to discussion of the rapture, second coming, tribulation, etc are:

But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. - KJV of Mark 13:32 and Matthew 24:36 (slightly different wording, but same concept)

and

For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. - KJV of 1 Thess. 5:2

I agree (to a point) with the sentiments of those that like to quote these verses, but often disagree with the extent of the application and/or the context they are used in. I'll address the easier one first (1 Thess. 5:2)

Using this verse the way that many people do nicely demonstrates problem with taken single verses out of context. Many people use this verse as a way of saying that Jesus will come at a time we do not know (like a thief in the night.) The problem is that they don't bother to read a few verses further or to compare it to similar passages elsewhere in the Bible. If we read to 1 Thess. 5:4, we find it says:

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Also, we have a related, relevant passage in Revelation 3:3:

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Between these two verses and within the context, it seems pretty clear that Christ will "come as a thief in the night" to those that are in darkness and are not watching. We, as believers, are not of the darkness but of the light. We are exhorted to WATCH so that he DOESN'T come upon us as a thief, but rather so that we are prepared and ready for his coming:

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. - Matthew 24:42-44

This is another passage where it is easy to fall into a trap. If you take verse 42 by itself (for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come,) then it is easy to say "we don't know, we can't know, etc, etc." But again, if we keep reading we see that the exhortation is about being prepared. In other words, "Be watchful because he can come at any time. If you slack off, fall asleep, or don't watch, inevitably that will be the time that he comes and you will be caught unaware."

OK, now for the tougher one. I'm not dogmatic about this because I know that it is a touchy subject and that this point doesn't necessarily "disprove" anything...but I still think it's worth thinking about at the very least.

The Greek word for "knoweth" in the verse "but of that day or hour knoweth no man..." is ειδον. A morphological analysis of this word shows that it is present tense, aorist indicitive. This means that it is occurring at the present time (time being spoken) and completed at the moment of speaking ( http://www.bcbsr.com/greek/gtense.html .) It is not a continuing (present perfect) or a future tense verb. In other words, to use this verse to say that Jesus still doesn't know today or to use it to say that no one can EVER know is inaccurate...at least as far as the Greek grammar is concerned.

Just some things to think about...

[Cynthiann]

Our Lord in the Olivet discourse referred to the timing of his return as a woman in labor.....so I always think of the timing of his return in those terms: A pregnant woman never knows the exact date of birth of her baby (natural, not induced or c-section). It certainly becomes more obvious that the birth is imminent the closer it comes, but until those pains begin and don't stop, no one knows the exact day of the baby's arrival. No one knows the exact time either until just as the child is born. Does that make sense to you all?

[KBKMNN]

Jesus gave up His omniscience for the period of time when he became a man. Things were gradually revealed to Him "as he grew in stature and wisdom."

So when I see that verse about Him not knowing - at that time, it is not surprising to me. However, I believe that once He took His rightful place at the right hand of the Father, he very likely regained His omniscience.

I agree with this 100%. I believe that Jesus NOW knows the hour, but He didn't as a human on earth.

[LUVSLLAMAS]

Israel is God's timepiece and since their re-birth as a nation in 1948, the countdown began. The fig tree is seasonal and we know the signs around us daily are representative of the birth pangs. I'm just so looking forward to the shout and fully expect it every day I wake up. This generation shall not pass who witnesses the fig leaf on the vine begin to ripen (Israel became a nation). Jesus would never speak anything that wasn't true - this is why my faith grows and my eyes are focused on our redemption.

[mfa0830]

Our Lord in the Olivet discourse referred to the timing of his return as a woman in labor.....so I always think of the timing of his return in those terms: A pregnant woman never knows the exact date of birth of her baby (natural, not induced or c-section). It certainly becomes more obvious that the birth is imminent the closer it comes, but until those pains begin and don't stop, no one knows the exact day of the baby's arrival. No one knows the exact time either until just as the child is born. Does that make sense to you all?

Yes, it does!

[CharlotteMc]

Even though movies and tv shows are just that...entertainment, does anyone else get bothered by all these movies and tv shows portraying ghosts roaming around the earth after they die?(i.e. "The Sixth Sense", "Unsolved Mysteries" segments, etc)

They've just made too many of them to the point where majority of the public believes all this.

ABSOLUTELY. Add to that list vampires, witches, ghost whisperers, and if I here about one more show about loose sexual activity I will absolutely

[Buzzardhut]

ABSOLUTELY. Add to that list vampires, witches, ghost whisperers, and if I here about one more show about loose sexual activity I will absolutely

And if you want the ghosts out you call a psychic or catholic priest

[bookworm1711]

Very interesting thread.

I concur that Jesus now knows when He will return, but while a man on earth during the first Advent he did not know. An elderly friend of mine years ago, we called him Uncle Frank, suggested to me that Jesus chose not to know.

On page 2 of this thread I saw some discussion pertaining to the Holy Spirit, and then a brief post or two about John 3:5. I explained on another thread titled "Baptism" that John 3:5 involves a figure of speech called Hendiadys, because it has two words used but only one thing is meant: "born of water and the Spirit." Translating this to agree with the figure of speech being used would read "born of water, even the Spirit." Water in this verse has nothing to do with ritual water baptism, but by the figure used, strong emphasis is given to being born of the Holy Spirit at the new birth, the subject in context. "Water" in this verse is a symbol of the Holy Spirit, a symbol repeated in another context in John 7:38, 39.

An earlier post brought out a very good point: two different times are specified. One time is known, for the days can be counted from the time Antichrist signs the treaty with Israel, then 3-1/2 years later breaks that treaty. It is then 3-1/2 years until the open public manifestation of Christ in power and great glory (Matthew 24:30). The time that is unknown is the time of the Pre-tribulation Rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.

There are many signs that precede the Rapture, or first stage of the Second Advent, but these are general and have always been present, at least for the most part. Since Jesus commanded us to watch, it must be assumed that there is some point to the command, and that if and as we do watch, when the time comes we will know, at least approximately, the nearness of His return.

At the moment, I am getting ready to teach a Monday night Bible study on this very subject. I have a list of nearly forty such signs, derived from George N. H. Peters work on Bible prophecy, The Theocratic Kingdom. I have found this three-volume work to be the most extensive resource on the subject of Bible prophecy that I have ever read.