Is the Psalm 83 War Next on the Prophetic Timeline?

[4EverHis]

4EverHis - I've more fully read your reply and you did give several comments with scripture. I was a bit tired last night and probably should not have responded for that reason alone.

What I was trying to say, is I'd like more scripture and reasoning concerning "timing" of Psalm 83 / Isaiah 17 event(s). For instance in the Ezek 38 war, as pointed out by another poster, we can know a time frame just because of the burning fuel and burying bodies. These are the type of references or proof I'm looking for. So far, I haven't seen this in scripture or in anyone's posts on the subject. Perhaps I've missed it?

Hi Mensh, Scripture does tell us that Isaiah 17 / Psalm 83 occurs before Ezekiel 38. As mentioned before, the invading followers of Gog, are not the same as those mentioned in Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83. God is very specific with listing those nations involved with the Ezekiel 38 battle. God knows the nations involved with Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83, but He does not list them at all in Ezekiel 38. These invading forces led by Gog, have to pass through and would very much effect, the nations surrounding Israel, yet they are not listed by God as being involved because they have already been dealt with in Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83, prior to the Gog invasion. If the nations in Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 were involved in Ezekiel 38, then God would have listed them and said so, but He doesn’t list them. They would join the invasion, but they don’t, and that’s because there is but a remnant of them left. Example, Jordan, God specifically knows Jordan, and in Isaiah 17:2, Jordan is pretty much destroyed, ergo God does not list Jordan as being involved in Ezekiel 38.
Israel is left very, very damaged and vulnerable after Isaiah 17 / Psalm 83, which sets the stage for the Ezekiel 38 invasion.

[Seated]

I am still holding to the idea that the Church could see Isaiah 17 while it is still here, as God does not indicate His direct involvement in that event. He does, however, make clear his involvement in Ezekiel 38 & 39, making them part of His re-engagement with Israel and the gentile nations.

As far as Isaiah 17 being the catalyst for Ezekiel 38 & 39, it's hard to say with certainty, although it is certainly possible. Things are happening so rapidly now, that scenarios can change literally overnight. Russia invades Georgia and within weeks completes alliances with the remaining countries involved with Gog/Magog. Something prophecy students had been looking for for years all lined up in a matter of weeks.

How much would an Israeli attack on Iran change things? Would Syria counterattack on Iran's behalf, do something stupid and incur destruction on Damascus? Could happen. But the bigger wild card to me is the rapture. If it happened soon, things would suddenly accelerate at break neck speed.

We just don't know.

[Jillian]

I suppose I would offer up this:

It doesn't seems appropriate to my feeble mind that Israel would be burning weapons for 7 years at the end of the millennial kingdom because that would mean they are burning the weapons into Eternity, which is not possible. Ezekiel also says they will be burying the dead for 7 months, which I would posit would also carry over into Eternity, and again is not possible.

Would some one please explain ? I did not know that the millennium was eternity. I did not think eternity started until AFTER the Millennium. When the devil is released from his chains and goes about deceiving the nations , then God puts a quick stop to it He destroys the world with fire and God will create NEW Heavens and a new earth. This is when Eternity begins.

[Trust&Obey]

Hi Mensh, Scripture does tell us that Isaiah 17 / Psalm 83 occurs before Ezekiel 38. As mentioned before, the invading followers of Gog, are not the same as those mentioned in Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83. God is very specific with listing those nations involved with the Ezekiel 38 battle. God knows the nations involved with Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83, but He does not list them at all in Ezekiel 38. These invading forces led by Gog, have to pass through and would very much effect, the nations surrounding Israel, yet they are not listed by God as being involved because they have already been dealt with in Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83, prior to the Gog invasion. If the nations in Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 were involved in Ezekiel 38, then God would have listed them and said so, but He doesn’t list them. They would join the invasion, but they don’t, and that’s because there is but a remnant of them left. Example, Jordan, God specifically knows Jordan, and in Isaiah 17:2, Jordan is pretty much destroyed, ergo God does not list Jordan as being involved in Ezekiel 38.
Israel is left very, very damaged and vulnerable after Isaiah 17 / Psalm 83, which sets the stage for the Ezekiel 38 invasion.

4EverHis - thanks for breaking things down a bit more for me. I'm taking a quick break at work, so won't be able to dig in until later tonight. Your first statements do show that these are separate events in scripture.

That leaves the deduction that Jordan is not involved with Ezekiel 38 to be a key point in why Ps 83/Is 17 happens first? Still unclear that there is a Biblical point here or just speculation. What if Jordan is having a major crisis or something (pestilence, famine, whatever) that prevents them from participating ins Ezek 38? Just saying, if we are going to speculate we should consider many options.

I'll have to delve into this more, but my understanding is that Edom (southern Jordan) will be so desolated so that man will never live there again and it will not be part of the MK. Moab (central Jordan) will be partially destroyed and those that remain will come to salvation and will enter the MK. Ammon will be partially destroyed and will become a possession of Israel and will enter as a nation into the MK. These, of course do not immediately speak to timing either, but if this all hinges on Jordan, than a full study of prophecy concerning Jordan - Edom, Moab and Ammon is necessary. Talk to you again tonight!

[Trust&Obey]

Jillian - just a quick reply. Some have said that Ezek 38 is the war that happens when Satan is loosed at the end of the 1,000 years. I think the poster that talked about 7 years burning fuel and 7 months burying bodies was saying that this could not go into eternity. So that proves this is not the same war as at the end of the MK.

The 7 years/7months is also used by many (Fruchtenbaum for one) to say that Ezek. 38 needs to happen prior to tribulation. Frucht says 3 1/2 years prior since, he says Jews will be on the run in the last 3 1/2 years of tribulation and will not be concerned with burying bodies or burning fuel. Most agree that if it happens in the tribulation it will have to happen at the very beginning (because they do not see these things going on during the MK). I tend to think it will happen prior to the tribulation but am not dogmatic that it has to be at least 3 1/2 years prior.

[rjmamula]

Hi Mensh, Scripture does tell us that Isaiah 17 / Psalm 83 occurs before Ezekiel 38. As mentioned before, the invading followers of Gog, are not the same as those mentioned in Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83. God is very specific with listing those nations involved with the Ezekiel 38 battle. God knows the nations involved with Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83, but He does not list them at all in Ezekiel 38. These invading forces led by Gog, have to pass through and would very much effect, the nations surrounding Israel, yet they are not listed by God as being involved because they have already been dealt with in Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83, prior to the Gog invasion. If the nations in Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 were involved in Ezekiel 38, then God would have listed them and said so, but He doesn’t list them. They would join the invasion, but they don’t, and that’s because there is but a remnant of them left. Example, Jordan, God specifically knows Jordan, and in Isaiah 17:2, Jordan is pretty much destroyed, ergo God does not list Jordan as being involved in Ezekiel 38.
Israel is left very, very damaged and vulnerable after Isaiah 17 / Psalm 83, which sets the stage for the Ezekiel 38 invasion.

That fails to address what I pointed out: that Ezekiel say "and many others."

[4EverHis]

That fails to address what I pointed out: that Ezekiel say "and many others."

From my previous post

"Many others" are believed to be the former, and perhaps reunited, satellite nations of Russia. God knows specifically the names of the Arabs nations that surround Israel, as He will see to it that they are destroyed.

[4EverHis]

4EverHis - thanks for breaking things down a bit more for me. I'm taking a quick break at work, so won't be able to dig in until later tonight. Your first statements do show that these are separate events in scripture.
That leaves the deduction that Jordan is not involved with Ezekiel 38 to be a key point in why Ps 83/Is 17 happens first? Still unclear that there is a Biblical point here or just speculation. What if Jordan is having a major crisis or something (pestilence, famine, whatever) that prevents them from participating ins Ezek 38? Just saying, if we are going to speculate we should consider many options.

It is not just Jordan, it is Damascus (Syria) and the West Bank. Three that are destroyed, or severely damaged. In Isaiah 17 God will see to it that the surrounding enemy nations of Israel, will be gone. There are many chapters in Ezekiel that God devotes to the destruction of specific enemies of Israel.

Isaiah 17:13
13. The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

[bookworm1711]

I enjoy your discussions of these prophetic passages.

I would suggest we not forget that our Lord Jesus Christ will reign forever (Luke 1:32, 33; Daniel 7:13, 14; Revelation 11:15) upon this earth from Jerusalem (Isaiah 24:23). Therefore, there is no such thing as anything "carrying over to eternity" as taking place anywhere else than on this earth (Matthew 5:5). This earth shall never be destroyed (Ecclesiastes 1:4 and parallel passages like Psalm 78:69; Psalm 89:36, 37; Psalm 72:5, 7, 17) but will last forever. It cannot be otherwise or God would violate his Covenants with Abraham and David.

The Millennium only marks, as far as time goes, the length of time that Satan is bound. It DOES NOT mark how long Jesus reigns on the Throne of David here on this earth!

Many prophetic students today have carried over this mistaken notion from mistaken students of yesteryear in the nineteenth century, as fully documented in the wonderful but exhaustive study of these issues in George N. H. Peters' work, The Theocratic Kingdom (where he very politely and gently corrects them in detail from Scripture!).

I agree that if Psalm 83 is to be taken as prophecy and if it can be associated properly with Isaiah 17, then the events of Ezekiel 38 and Ezekiel 39 must follow in the order of things. That Psalm 83 is prophecy and not merely an echo of history is quite certain because Psalm 83:8 mentions Assur, or Assyria (and thus may possibly be linked with The Assyrian mentioned in Micah 5:5 and parallel passages), and this country and region, far as I recall, does not figure by name into the historical account alluded to in Psalm 83 in 2 Chronicles 20:5-12.

As for objections and considerations in reference to the presence of imprecatory prayer in Psalm 83, this has no bearing upon the issue. If you carefully study the subject of imprecatory prayer you will find it used in the New Testament by Paul, for example. I'm sure many may be sensitive to the issue and may not feel it their position to pray in this manner, but in the Bible many clearly within God's will did pray this way.

In the light of the fact that we are seeing a contemporary "Evangelical Collapse" so-called, when we could be seeing an "Evangelical Revival" if those who claim to be Christians would engage in personal direct study of the Bible on a regular basis, let me share some verses for you to study about imprecatory prayer:

Jeremiah 10:25. Jeremiah 11:20. Jeremiah 12:3. Jeremiah 15:15. Jeremiah 17:18. Jeremiah 18:21-23. Numbers 16:15. Deuteronomy 33:11. Joshua 8:33, 34. Judges 16:28. 1 Samuel 26:19. 2 Chronicles 24:22. Nehemiah 4:4, 5. Nehemiah 5:13. Nehemiah 6:14. Job 27:7. Psalm 5:10. Psalm 9:20. Psalm 10:2, 15. Psalm 28:4. Psalm 55:9, 15. Psalm 56:7. Psalm 59:5, 11, 13, 15. Psalm 68:1, 2. Psalm 69:22-24, 27, 28. Psalm 71:13. Psalm 79:10, 12. Psalm 94:2. Psalm 119:78, 84. Psalm 140:9, 10. Psalm 143:12. Psalm 144:6. Lamentations 1:22. Lamentations 3:64-66. 1 Corinthians 16:22. Galatians 1:8, 9. 2 Timothy 4:14. Revelation 6:10.

While we are indeed to pray for our enemies, the Bible in all the verses I just referenced for you on this subject indicates that we are also to pray against evil and evil doers. Certainly this is a part of very much needed spiritual warfare in this day.

It is clear from such a passage as Exodus 22:22, 23 that "If...and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry; [24] And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; ..." stands as a warning and moral principle found throughout the Bible. God hears the cries of those who call to Him about injustice, for example, and God most certainly does something about it in answer to these prayers both in the "here and now" and in the "hereafter" you may be sure!

To learn more (I am sure there are no lessons in your current Sunday school quarterlies about this issue) go directly to the Bible and search it out by means of the extensive cross references furnished in a study tool like Nelson's Cross Reference Guide to the Bible and look up the cross references for Exodus 22:22, 23 or any other passage you want to learn more about from the Bible itself.

[sirgak]

And a very hearty amen to that statement!

In this regard, I challenge anyone to provide a single detail from the Hebrew text of Ezekiel 38 and 39, (in context with the book as a whole and particularly in context with the five previous visions given to the prophet on the night before word arrived that Jerusalem had fallen to the Babylonians) that supports a premillennial as opposed to postmillennial fulmillment of the Gog-Magog invasion described in these chapters.

The Gog-Magog Of Eze 38-39 gives a limited, specific list of the nations specifically to the remote part of the north (north of Israel) that will be a party to the conflict, whereas the one after the Millennium cites nations from the four quarters of the Earth, meaning all the nations of the Earth.

Also, the burning of weapons for seven years is another difference, as someone has already pointed out. The invading army of Eze 38-39 is destroyed on the mountains of Israel, whereas the one after the Millennium is upon the breadth of the Earth. No mention of the devil is made in Eze 38-39, whereas he is seized and doomed in the Millennial one. Fire and brimstone, hailstones and an overflowing rain destroy the Eze 38-39 army, whereas fire alone (no mention of brimstone or rain or hailstones) comes down out of heaven and fire alone consumes the Millennial one. The sixth part of the Eze 38-39 army is left, whereas NONE of the Millennial one is left.

Rev 20:7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. 10And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

These are two separate battles. To confuse them, is like confusing the first coming of Jesus with the Second. After all, they both tell of His coming. The difference is in the details.

[sirgak]

Frucht says 3 1/2 years prior since, he says Jews will be on the run in the last 3 1/2 years of tribulation and will not be concerned with burying bodies or burning fuel. Most agree that if it happens in the tribulation it will have to happen at the very beginning (because they do not see these things going on during the MK). I tend to think it will happen prior to the tribulation but am not dogmatic that it has to be at least 3 1/2 years prior.

The best fit I have found for when the Eze Gog-Magog battle occurs, is the Second Seal of Rev 6, the rider on the red horse who has given a great sword to take peace from the Earth. If you follow that seal, when combined with the 3rd and 4th Seals, they together slay 1/4th of the Earth's population, which is more fatalities than from all the wars Man has ever fought--combined! Only WMD (ie weapons of mass destruction) could kill 1-1/2 billion people. As a side note, some have quibbled with this figure, saying, it isn't really one-fourth of the population, but one-fourth of the geography. To them I can only point out that Jesus said that if those days were not cut short by God, NO FLESH would be saved, ie no life left, 100% fatalities, so why quibble over 1/4th of all life?

The prophecy of the Gog-Magog assault says in Chapter 39 that God would send fire upon Magog (Gog's country) and the coastlands (the farthest reaches of the Earth away from Israel). This sounds ominously like a nuclear war between Russia and the USA. Estimates made back in the '80s during the no-nuke demonstrations days suggested that a nuclear war could wipe out 1/4th of the Earth's population. This I know, because I knew a fellow who was involved with that, and when he told me that it could wipe out a fourth, I took him to Revelation 6 and showed that to him. It stunned him.

What I am saying, is that I find it unlikely that there could be two such nuclear wars, first one prior to the seven years, and then another inside the Trib. very near the beginning of the seven years. This is why I believe that the Gog-Magog conflict triggers World War III, and that it is identified with the Second Seal (along with Seals 3 and 4).

As for the burning of weapons for seven years, once the Jews are in hiding after the AOD at the middle point of the Trib, the weapons will furnish them fuel while they are in hiding, so they don't have to try to appropriate coal, propane, etc for cooking and keeping themselves warm, The weapons will be abundant, to be burned for the asking.

If the weapons are burned for seven years, and if the Gog-Magog conflict occurs after the Tribulation, then wouldn't that necessarily mean they will be burning weapons into the Millennium? Not necessarily. Notice the following:

Daniel 12:11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

There will be a blessing after 1335 days after the AOD. Apparently, the Millennium will not necessarily start IMMEDIATELY after the Second Coming, but will be delayed 30 to 75 days. If this is true, and if indeed the Gog-Magog war is the same as the Second Seal, then that means that in about 30 to 75 days after the start of the Tribulation, nuclear war will break out, the long-dreaded World War III.

Think about the implications of this. Hypothetically speaking (not date-setting), but if the Rapture were to happen, say this Summer, then in about 1 to 2-1/2 months later, nuclear mushroom clouds will be sprouting over America this year.

Chew that over a while. Even if my premise and scenario about Eze 38-39 = Seal #2 is wrong, anyone left behind will almost certainly still face mushroom cloud annihilation shortly after the Rapture, for the Second Seal still follows after the Seal #1 revelation of the Antichrist. None of the well-meaning Christian filmmakers who make all these movies about people left behind to face the Antichrist, make the proposal that those left behind will be annihilated in atomic war.

I will repeat myself. If the Rapture and Trib should start this year, this year will likely also see nuclear war.

If this frightens you, it should. But, that fear should not be for yourselves, since we will be Raptured out first, but we should fear for those whom we care about who will be left behind.

[Jillian]

Jillian - just a quick reply. Some have said that Ezek 38 is the war that happens when Satan is loosed at the end of the 1,000 years. I think the poster that talked about 7 years burning fuel and 7 months burying bodies was saying that this could not go into eternity. So that proves this is not the same war as at the end of the MK.

The 7 years/7months is also used by many (Fruchtenbaum for one) to say that Ezek. 38 needs to happen prior to tribulation. Frucht says 3 1/2 years prior since, he says Jews will be on the run in the last 3 1/2 years of tribulation and will not be concerned with burying bodies or burning fuel. Most agree that if it happens in the tribulation it will have to happen at the very beginning (because they do not see these things going on during the MK). I tend to think it will happen prior to the tribulation but am not dogmatic that it has to be at least 3 1/2 years prior.

Well thanks a lot for clearing that for me. I was kind of confused there .

[Miggy]

Sirgak,

Your post was an interesting read. Thanks!

[Trust&Obey]

sirgak - thanks for the very informative and well-thought out reply. I have had a similar thought that Frucht's reasoning on burning fuel didn't make sense for the same reason you stated,

As for the burning of weapons for seven years, once the Jews are in hiding after the AOD at the middle point of the Trib, the weapons will furnish them fuel while they are in hiding, so they don't have to try to appropriate coal, propane, etc for cooking and keeping themselves warm, The weapons will be abundant, to be burned for the asking.

I also don't like the 3 1/2 year prior because it seems to interefere with immenency of the rapture (although, if one were to believe that there could be a gap of years between the rapture and the trib, that would take care of it). I do believe the timeline you presented (tying Ezek 38-39 to the 2nd Seal) makes a lot of sense to me.

In a conference last August (remember Georgia was going on then), I asked Dr. Fruchtenbaum what he thought the "hook in the jaw" was going to be. Paraphrased, he said Gog will be heading North until he comes back to Israel (the hook). What is north of Russia? North America. He didn't elaborate any more on that subject.

[rjmamula]

Well I have read your replies and reread my Bible carefully. Psalm 83 not only makes no mention of the Israeli military, but calls for God to wipe away Israel's enemies with fire storms and other natural disasters, which God will also use in Gog and Magog. It also says that after the event, Israel's enemies will know that the Lord is God, Just like in Ezekiel. A few years ago, there was talk of Gog and Magog being imminent. Then I suddenly got introduced to Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17, which seemed to put Gog and Magog off. With respect to all of your views, I stand by my position.

[Trust&Obey]

I would suggest we not forget that our Lord Jesus Christ will reign forever (Luke 1:32, 33; Daniel 7:13, 14; Revelation 11:15) upon this earth from Jerusalem (Isaiah 24:23). Therefore, there is no such thing as anything "carrying over to eternity" as taking place anywhere else than on this earth (Matthew 5:5). This earth shall never be destroyed (Ecclesiastes 1:4 and parallel passages like Psalm 78:69; Psalm 89:36, 37; Psalm 72:5, 7, 17) but will last forever. It cannot be otherwise or God would violate his Covenants with Abraham and David.

Bookworm, respectfully, you are mistaken about the Millennial Kingdom:

• Believers will reign with Christ for 1,000 years according to Revelation 20:6.
• There will be a new earth and a new Jerusalem according to Revelation 21:1-2.
• There will be "no more sea" in this new earth - Rev 20:1

What are in MK passages of the OT that are not in Rev 20:1? Sea

• Psalms 72:8 says Christ will rule from "sea to sea"
• Isaiah 11:9 Isaiah 11:11 also mention sea during MK
• Ezekiel 47:10, Ez 47:15, Ez 47:17-18 talks of the "sea"
• Ezekiel 48:28 mentions the "great sea"
• Zechariah 9:10 says Christ's dominion will be from "sea to sea"

The OT also verifies "new heavens and earth" in these passages:

Isaiah 65:17 (King James Version)
17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Isaiah 66:22 (King James Version)
22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

The NT also verifies the "new heavens and earth"

2 Peter 3:13 (King James Version)
13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Christ's reign on David's throne is not contingent on the earth not being re-created or made new.

When I reviewed your scripture references:

• Isaiah 24:23 - no mention of eternity - just says the Lord will reign on Zion.
• Luke 1:32-33 - says Christ will sit on the throne of David, Christ will reign forever and His kingdom will not end (can be true through both MK and eternity)
• Daniel 7:13-14 - says Christ's dominion will be everlasting and His kingdom shall not pass away (again the "kingdom" won't pass away - however doesn't say God won't upgrade the earth and heaven - which is what is said in other scriptures)
• Revelation 11:15 - same concept. The definition of "kingdom" has to do with authority and royal power - Christ will reign over His kingdoms for all eternity. In Revelation 20:1 and the others I mentioned above God's Word says He will create new heavens and a new earth.
• Matthew 5:5 - refers to the MK
• Due to time/space I will summarize with this statement. It is quite possible that the earth can both be eternal and be "new". In fact, it is possible the earth is "re-created".

[Trust&Obey]

A quick afterthought to my last post:

God will sit on His throne both before and after the new heavens are made. His dominion does not change because He creates new heavens and a new earth. Why would Christ's?

[WILLIAMBEASON1842]

I have been looking for something to happen to bring Iran's nuke projects to a halt without a attack by Israel. I admit that I had no idea of how this might come about, but it looks like we could be beginning to see how it could come about. Israel could still attack Iran, but right now I still think that they are going to go to a state of high alert and keep a close watch on them. I have never seen anything in scripture that makes me believe that Iran would ever be able to get a nuke bomb and use it or attempt to use it on Israel. It is still my belief that as a result of what is going on now that Iran will have to make some big changes in its plans.

1. I expect them to get desperate and have gaza's hamaz to attack Israel in every way that they can. Also look for the PLO in the west bank to attack, in spite of what they are saying now. I believe that this would come about because Iran needs something to get the people rioting against the rulers to join them and help in an attack on Israel.

2. Also look for an attack on Israel from the north by Syria and hezebolla to start with rocket attacks and maybe even a land attack to take back the Golan Heights. Also look for Damascus to be part of the attack and at some point they will be destroyed completely. Weather Israel will do it or someone else or maybe GOD will destroy Damascus, I am not sure, but it will happen. I do lean more to Israel destroying Damascus, but understand that it could be GOD that will accomplist it.

3. From scripture I also look for Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia to also get in on the attack on Israel. Israel will probably need to use everything it has to be able to defeat all those around her that will be in this attack. They will win and Iran will find itself greatly weakened after this war is over. Israel will also be weakened greatly because she had to use every thing in their pocession in order to win this war. This series of events IMHO is Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83. Israel will totaly destroy hesbolla, hamaz, and the plo and the other in this attack. Although weakened greatly, they will still be there.

4. Iran from having all the above destroyed will be left more or less alone and need help from someone. I still believe that events going on there now are somehow going to cause their nuke plans to either be destroyed or put on hold because of damaged caused by the riots. It is also possible that those wosrking on the nukes will also start to rebell and destsroy key parts of the nuke plants. If this happens and I believe that it could, Iran would need help and need it quickly.

5. That brings us up to Gog Magog war and those that join in that war. Russia will be the head and the moslem nations will follow including Iran. The combined armies will be so big, Russia and all the moslem nations that scripture list that Israel could not win even if they used all their nuke weapons. Russia may try to use nukes and chemical weapons but I believe that GOD will prevent them from working. Israel will do nothing but sit back and watch because they know that unless GOD fights for them all will be lost and they will be gone. Surprise Gog Magog and all Moslems, GOD is going to fight and only one in six of you will excape. When they try to flea back to their homelands their homelands will be destroyed too. I also think that most if not all Moslem capitols and and major cities will be gone, along with Mecca and Medena. I beleve that as a result most of the Moslem religion be cease to be a major force.

6. Another thing that could happen would for all sleeper cells in the west, and expecially in the US would attack and leave us to busy to even think about helping Israel. ALSO, THE RAPTURE PROBABLY HAPPENS SOMETIME DURING THIS TIME, probably after Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83. GOD still controls this event but I do believe that is will happen before Gog Magod.

[Gideon300]

1. I expect them to get desperate and have gaza's hamaz to attack Israel in every way that they can. Also look for the PLO in the west bank to attack, in spite of what they are saying now. I believe that this would come about because Iran needs something to get the people rioting against the rulers to join them and help in an attack on Israel.

2. Also look for an attack on Israel from the north by Syria and hezebolla to start with rocket attacks and maybe even a land attack to take back the Golan Heights. Also look for Damascus to be part of the attack and at some point they will be destroyed completely. Weather Israel will do it or someone else or maybe GOD will destroy Damascus, I am not sure, but it will happen. I do lean more to Israel destroying Damascus, but understand that it could be GOD that will accomplist it.

I've thought the same thing. Iran gets desperate to keep Israel from attacking, so they use their proxies (Hezbollah & Hamas) to start a multiple front war with Israel to keep them bogged down.

[BloodRoyal]

So then at what point do you see the Trib starting? After the Gog war?