Seperate Battles, Psalm 83 first, Ezekiel later.
Prayer within a prophecy
Silmultanious
Other: add comment to post
I believe the war of Gog and Magog will set up what will happen (at least politically) during Tribulation. Go to http://www.arewelivinginthelastdays.com/articles.htm and check out their article on the war of Gog & Magog. I think they really hit the nail on the head with it. There is also some really good info on the rapture ready site that I’ve read in the past.Originally Posted by BloodRoyal
Paying attention to GOD
start of gog magog
From Scripture I don't seen anything that would give us any time line for the start of the tribulation after gog magog. IMHO I believe that it could be within a very short period of time, but could see it being a year or two. I honestly just don't know. I do believe that the Rapture will happen probably before gog magog, but we all know that it could happen at any time before or even after gog magog, but I expect the Rapture before gog magog. GOD will be turning back to working out the 70th week and I expect that to be soon, but have been known to be wrong.
William Beason
I look for the Psalms 83 war any day now!! Probably, pre-tribulation. Then the anti christ forges a peace pact with Israel at the very start of the tribulation.
Now think about this for a moment. As Israel defeats the forces of Psalms 83, why would a peace pact be necessary? As the victor Israel could do anything they wanted.
Perhaps the peace pact will be designed to protect the world from Israel. That would also give a few days/weeks for the Gog/Magog invasion to come together and come against Israel, again ending in a defet for the enemy forces.
It is not until the mid point of the tribulation that the world comes against Jesusalem, and the Jews will be in their temple doing the sacrifices and worship during the first part of the trib. Unless Israel had the upper hand going into the tribulation, temple worship would result in a war of huge porportions. Thus they must have the power to do what they want as their enemy attackers lie in ruins and devestation. Also, remember that they covenant is made with "many."
Why could't Ps 83 be a response from Isreal to God at the time that Gog/Magog march on them? Isreal knows they can't win against so great an army so they call on God "O God do not remain quiet" ect. Also I always wondered if the Rapture could happen during the begining of the Gog/Magog war.
I believe Psalm 83 is where Damascus (in Syria) will be destroyed fulfilling a prophecy that is still lingering today. Also, Syria is not mentioned in the invading forces of Gog/Magog which leads me to believe these are two different battles....and perhaps very close to each other. Perhaps just days apart.
Yup figuared I would have some wrong thinking there as I have no reference books that match up some of the old names of places with thier new names.
I have to respectfully disagreeWILLIAMBEASON1842- I have been looking for something to happen to bring Iran's nuke projects to a halt without a attack by Israel. I admit that I had no idea of how this might come about, but it looks like we could be beginning to see how it could come about. Israel could still attack Iran, but right now I still think that they are going to go to a state of high alert and keep a close watch on them. I have never seen anything in scripture that makes me believe that Iran would ever be able to get a nuke bomb and use it or attempt to use it on Israel. It is still my belief that as a result of what is going on now that Iran will have to make some big changes in its plans.
1. I expect them to get desperate and have gaza's hamaz to attack Israel in every way that they can. Also look for the PLO in the west bank to attack, in spite of what they are saying now. I believe that this would come about because Iran needs something to get the people rioting against the rulers to join them and help in an attack on Israel.Yes, Hamas and Hezbollah are chess pieces for Iran, but something will indeed happen to Iran directly, to diminish them in power. Hamas and Hezbollah will be dealt with by Israel.
Yes, Hezbollah very likely will attack Israel from the North, and they have prepared to fight on multiple fronts. Israel in March 2008, stated publicly that they will hold "Damascus", not Syria, but specifically "Damascus" responsible for any actions of Hezbollah. Israel will indeed destroy Damascus, and God will clearly, unequivocally destroy Gog and his followers.2. Also look for an attack on Israel from the north by Syria and hezebolla to start with rocket attacks and maybe even a land attack to take back the Golan Heights. Also look for Damascus to be part of the attack and at some point they will be destroyed completely. Weather Israel will do it or someone else or maybe GOD will destroy Damascus, I am not sure, but it will happen. I do lean more to Israel destroying Damascus, but understand that it could be GOD that will accomplist it.
I have to respectfully disagree3. From scripture I also look for Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia to also get in on the attack on Israel. Israel will probably need to use everything it has to be able to defeat all those around her that will be in this attack. They will win and Iran will find itself greatly weakened after this war is over. Israel will also be weakened greatly because she had to use every thing in their pocession in order to win this war. This series of events IMHO is Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83. Israel will totaly destroy hesbolla, hamaz, and the plo and the other in this attack. Although weakened greatly, they will still be there.Isaiah 17 states that Jordan, the West Bank, and Damascus will be destroyed. The rest of the nations surrounding Israel that "rush in" like "water", will flee. Yes indeed, we need to Pray greatly for Israel, as they will suffer greatly during the Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 war. They will have to fight this alone. Israel will have used all of their weapons, and no nation will re-supply them. Israel is left very damaged, suffering, and very vulnerable for the stage to be set for the Ezekiel 38 invasion.
We dont know for sure what will happen with Iran, other than they will be very diminished in power. Most likely they will be attacked, and Russia who is there ally with billions invested in Iran, will invite them to join the invasion.4. Iran from having all the above destroyed will be left more or less alone and need help from someone. I still believe that events going on there now are somehow going to cause their nuke plans to either be destroyed or put on hold because of damaged caused by the riots. It is also possible that those wosrking on the nukes will also start to rebell and destsroy key parts of the nuke plants. If this happens and I believe that it could, Iran would need help and need it quickly.
God will indeed reveal Himself to His people, the Apple of His Eye. After thousands of years He tells us that He will no longer "hide His Face" from His people, He will be with them once again, forever, and "pour out His Spirit" upon the House of Israel.5. That brings us up to Gog Magog war and those that join in that war. Russia will be the head and the moslem nations will follow including Iran. The combined armies will be so big, Russia and all the moslem nations that scripture list that Israel could not win even if they used all their nuke weapons. Russia may try to use nukes and chemical weapons but I believe that GOD will prevent them from working. Israel will do nothing but sit back and watch because they know that unless GOD fights for them all will be lost and they will be gone. Surprise Gog Magog and all Moslems, GOD is going to fight and only one in six of you will excape. When they try to flea back to their homelands their homelands will be destroyed too. I also think that most if not all Moslem capitols and and major cities will be gone, along with Mecca and Medena. I beleve that as a result most of the Moslem religion be cease to be a major force.
While sleeper cells are highly possible, the U.S. is already in the process of deserting Israel6. Another thing that could happen would for all sleeper cells in the west, and expecially in the US would attack and leave us to busy to even think about helping Israel. ALSO, THE RAPTURE PROBABLY HAPPENS SOMETIME DURING THIS TIME, probably after Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83. GOD still controls this event but I do believe that is will happen before Gog Magod.Israel will have to fight alone in the Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 war. I agree, the Rapture probably will happen after Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83, and before Ezekiel 38.
Yes...
Yes, Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 war could start any day, and yes it will be pre-Trib.However, it will be followed by the Ezekiel 38-39 war, then the peace agreement is "confirmed" with the AC.Brinkley-I look for the Psalms 83 war any day now!! Probably, pre-tribulation. Then the anti christ forges a peace pact with Israel at the very start of the tribulation.
Yes, Israel will defeat their enemies in the Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 war, however they will be left severely suffering, weak, out of weapons and extremely vulnerable.Now think about this for a moment. As Israel defeats the forces of Psalms 83, why would a peace pact be necessary? As the victor Israel could do anything they wanted.
I have to respectfully disagreePerhaps the peace pact will be designed to protect the world from Israel. That would also give a few days/weeks for the Gog/Magog invasion to come together and come against Israel, again ending in a defet for the enemy forces.
The only reason that the treaty will be signed, is that the entire world will witness the God of Israel miraculously defend Israel. It will be nothing that the Israeli's do, but what God clearly demonstrates to the entire world.It is not until the mid point of the tribulation that the world comes against Jesusalem, and the Jews will be in their temple doing the sacrifices and worship during the first part of the trib. Unless Israel had the upper hand going into the tribulation, temple worship would result in a war of huge porportions. Thus they must have the power to do what they want as their enemy attackers lie in ruins and devestation. Also, remember that they covenant is made with "many."
God is very clear whom He names is involved in the Ezekiel 38 war. The Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 war is a preceding event to the Ezekiel 38 war. When Gog invades Israel, none of the other surrounding nations of Israel are mentioned, and God very well knows their names. They are no longer mentioned, because they "flee" during the Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 war. Yes, only God can save Israel from the Gog invasion. And yes, the Rapture could very well occur at the beginning of the Gog war.
Psalm 83 war and Isaiah 17 war, are the same event occurring simultaneously. It is in Isaiah 17, that Damascus, Jordan and the West Bank are destroyed.Yes, Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 sets the stage for Ezekiel 38, and will occur before Ezekiel 38.
4EverHis.....Great points!
On another thread, someone asked to show them where a peace treaty was signed at the beginning of the tribulation. They said the Bible says "covenant".
I also believe there may be some confusion here. It is indeed a "covenant" that is confirmed with many. Its sounds like the anti christ is confirming the covenant that Israel has concerning her right to the land (including the land she re-gains in the Psalms 83 war) and that she will never again lose it. The covenant is also confirmed with many. Perhaps the "many" include the land that Israel has now captured, thus enlarging her borders.
It would take a smoothie to do this and maintain any order of stability. But alas, all of the forces will realign again and make another attempt to try and remove Israel.....all to no avail, but with much pain and suffering for all involved.
The fact that God has turned His attention back on Israel during the Gog/Magog war is indicative that the Rapture has already happened. God has never fully focused on both the Church and Israel at the same time. Furthermore, the fact that God has to physically defeat the Russian army by sending fire and brimstone from heaven is one of the signs that clearly mark that the God of Israel is the REAL God. Jesus says "You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe". Clearly, the God/Magog event is one that can be seen and needs no faith to believe that God exists. Prior to the Rapture, there are no signs, no miraculous events of this magnitude, etc, because it is by faith that we believe.
I do, however, feel that it is very likely we will see the Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 war/wars. It appears that there is nothing indicative that God Himself destroys Damascus, so this tells me that God hasnt turned His full attention back on Israel yet.
Just my humble 2 cents....
The AC will indeed "confirm" a "covenant with many", mostly for peace reasons. The entire world will have witnessed huge, massive destruction and devastation, which leaves the opening for the AC to present his covenant. As usual, the "many" will sign out of fear, and he will probably present it to Israel as something like "you were lucky this time, next time you may not be so lucky, sign and you will be safe". Not all Israeli's will recognize that God saved them from Gog, but those that do, will insist that the Temple be rebuilt for worship and sacrifice to be once again resumed. Israel will not regain land after the Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 war. God does not tell us this at all. When ever the Lord leads His people to victory, He makes it very clear by making statements such as His people shall then dwell within a specific land, and He knows all the names of the other nations. He does not state that after the Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 war, instead He tells us that Israel is suffering greatly, they are in no position to occupy other lands. Israel has fought and won many wars, and is not occupying Egypt for example. They are not a conquering kind of nation, not land grabbers. In studying the Word of God, its not always what God says, but also what He does not say. We do know however, that in Isaiah 17:2, Jordan will not be completely destroyed, and that the "remnant" will flee to Petra at the Mid Trib point where God will protect them and the AC is not allowed to go.Brinkley - 4EverHis.....Great points!*Hey Brinkley
On another thread, someone asked to show them where a peace treaty was signed at the beginning of the tribulation. They said the Bible says "covenant".
I also believe there may be some confusion here. It is indeed a "covenant" that is confirmed with many. Its sounds like the anti christ is confirming the covenant that Israel has concerning her right to the land (including the land she re-gains in the Psalms 83 war) and that she will never again lose it. The covenant is also confirmed with many. Perhaps the "many" include the land that Israel has now captured, thus enlarging her borders.
Yes, the will indeed realign, foolishlyIt would take a smoothie to do this and maintain any order of stability. But alas, all of the forces will realign again and make another attempt to try and remove Israel.....all to no avail, but with much pain and suffering for all involved.
Yes JesusIsLordBut also God makes it very clear when He does indeed turn His attention fully back to Israel, in Ezekiel 39:29. We are so very privilege to read His beautiful Words to His people, the Apple of His Eye...He tells us how He hid His Face from them, and will no more, forever to be with them. He will then pour out His Spirit upon them...it is a momentous moment in all of time...
Ezekiel 39:23
23.And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Ezekiel 39:29
29.Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
I'm not so sure about that part:
Isaiah 17:4-8
This tells me the few that are left after the Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 war will turn their attention to God and seek Him.4 "In that day the glory of Jacob will fade;
the fat of his body will waste away.
5 It will be as when a reaper gathers the standing grain
and harvests the grain with his arm—
as when a man gleans heads of grain
in the Valley of Rephaim.
6 Yet some gleanings will remain,
as when an olive tree is beaten,
leaving two or three olives on the topmost branches,
four or five on the fruitful boughs,"
declares the LORD, the God of Israel.
7 In that day men will look to their Maker
and turn their eyes to the Holy One of Israel.
8 They will not look to the altars,
the work of their hands,
and they will have no regard for the Asherah poles
and the incense altars their fingers have made.
Maybe I am misinterpreting though?
Oh, I was referring to Isaiah 17/Psalm 83. Indeed, God has turned His attention back onto Israel during the Gog/Magog war. But prior to that, I think we *might* still be here. Then again, David does ask God to help them during the prophetic war of Isaiah 17/Psalm 83, so maybe His attention IS fully on Israel at this time....Yes JesusIsLord
Ezekiel 39:23
23.And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
Ezekiel 39:29
29.Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Psalm 83:9-18
Everything here is about God doing justice to the enemies of Israel.9 Do to them as you did to Midian,
as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
10 who perished at Endor
and became like refuse on the ground.
11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
12 who said, "Let us take possession
of the pasturelands of God."
13 Make them like tumbleweed, O my God,
like chaff before the wind.
14 As fire consumes the forest
or a flame sets the mountains ablaze,
15 so pursue them with your tempest
and terrify them with your storm.
16 Cover their faces with shame
so that men will seek your name, O LORD.
17 May they ever be ashamed and dismayed;
may they perish in disgrace.
18 Let them know that you, whose name is the LORD—
that you alone are the Most High over all the earth.
Yes, Isaiah 17 tells us that Israel will suffer greatly, and yes they will indeed look to God. Ezekiel 38-39 is the huge event, when God reveals Himself to them, and yet some will still not believe. As with today, many Israeli's are none believers - secular, and many will believe and cooperate with the AC during the Trib. Even after the Mid Trib point, it is the believers that are outraged when he enters the Temple, others will continue to follow him through the end of the Trib. He doesn’t fight Armageddon by himself, he has help...
I have to respectfully disagree.
Ezekiel 39:23-24
23.And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24.According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.
Ezekiel 39:29
29. Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
The Prayer
Psalm 83:13
13. O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.
The Prayer answered
Isaiah 17:13
13. The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.
I guess I have a lot more studying to do on these three events. There are so many opinions out there. Some even connect all three areas of scripture to one event. Some say Isaiah and Psalm events only precede the Ezekiel 38-39 event by hours/days. I am not sure because I havent studied enough on the connection between these events. I'm gonna start right away.
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