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Thread: Psalm 83 War & Fall of Damascus

  1. #1541

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    The Omegga Letter floated an interesting theory. I, presumably like most of you, expected a Clinton victory due to the prophetic march of globalization. But the writer argued that President Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the eternal capitol if Israel may finally lead to end of the "trampleing of the gentiles". Not that it will be ethnically cleansed but it will be fully in Jewish hands.
    Now I am suffering a lot of pain right now and the Percocet is mitigating it. That's the blessing, the temporary dulling of my critical thinking skills is the other side of the coin though, so forgive me if my next thought isn't quite cogent or if I am missing something but...
    Doesn't the restoration of Jerusalem to Israel basically fufill the time of the gentiles? If so, The Donald's victory should put us that much closer to the Rapture no?

  2. #1542

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustard View Post
    The Omegga Letter floated an interesting theory. I, presumably like most of you, expected a Clinton victory due to the prophetic march of globalization. But the writer argued that President Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the eternal capitol if Israel may finally lead to end of the "trampleing of the gentiles". Not that it will be ethnically cleansed but it will be fully in Jewish hands.
    Now I am suffering a lot of pain right now and the Percocet is mitigating it. That's the blessing, the temporary dulling of my critical thinking skills is the other side of the coin though, so forgive me if my next thought isn't quite cogent or if I am missing something but...
    Doesn't the restoration of Jerusalem to Israel basically fufill the time of the gentiles? If so, The Donald's victory should put us that much closer to the Rapture no?

    http://www.omegaletter.com/articles/...ArticleID=8332

    And here is an excerpt of that awesome article mustard refered too: Trump has made it clear that he would finally recognize Jerusalem as the sole, undivided capital of Israel, something no president has done since they recaptured the eastern half of it in 1967. Prophetically speaking, this is significant because Jesus said….and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:24)

    I am becoming less and less convinced that this means there will be a complete absence of Gentiles in Jerusalem milling about, as this has never been the case even when they were their own kingdom. But were President Trump, the leader of the world’s greatest nation, to acknowledge Jerusalem as the capital of Israel after 49 years of Israeli ownership, this could signal the beginning of the end of Gentile dominion as the world begins to enter into Daniel’s 70th Week. I believe that this is the only reason why it hasn’t happened yet.

    *Put in another way, if recognizing Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel were to work in Satan’s favor, it would have already happened 49 years ago. But it doesn’t and this is why Satan has been working so hard to prevent this now through eight different US administrations.

    Prognosis: This could also mark the time when Christians let their guard down in the United States. This supports the Biblically-based understanding that the church becomes largely lethargic and lukewarm. Hypothetically speaking, if Trump surrounds himself with as much Christian leadership (advisors and cabinet members) as has we have been led to believe, a Rapture would decimate much of our Executive Branch forcing a national realignment, in conjunction with an economic downturn.

  3. #1543
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    Fascinating!! I had always assumed a Trump presidency would slow the prophetic clock. I suppose that's possible, but this thread also shows how God's plans can continue undeterred. Thanks for offering up this perspective.

    Come quickly, Lord...even today!!!
    Matt. 7:21
    2 Cor. 5:21

  4. #1544

    Default Anyone else...

    Is there anyone else that would have a better understanding or maybe some of their own ideas and opinions on the situation? I find this topic to be interesting and very exciting...

  5. #1545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Free in Christ View Post
    Our eyes have certainly been on the Middle East with things
    I want to make sure, right up front, that I thank you
    for at least watching and asking questions.
    None of us have a perfect grasp on this subject,
    but each day, we seek to understand it better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny View Post
    In context, I don't believe we can tie 1 Thessalonians 5 to Ezekiel 38. The peace and safety, then sudden destruction is inside the 'Day of the Lord', which is in the tribulation period, IMHO. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
    No, I think you are right.

    Quote Originally Posted by drewbydoo View Post
    ...I've alaways believed/assumed ez38 would take place after the rapture, ...
    That is my belief, as well. Psalm 83 (title of this thread)
    is connected to Isaiah 17, and that may well happen before
    the Rapture. The fact is, though, we won't know for certain,
    until after it happens.

  6. #1546

    Default Question about Isaiah 17 and Psalms 83

    There are a lot of individuals who do not believe this scenario. My question is what do they believe otherwise. Otherwise, it is a valid argument about Isaiah and Psalms. Some say that Magog/Gog may happen before the rapture. If so, this would be a perfect scenario for the rapture to happen especially when the whole earth will shake at His presence in the Magog invasion. There are theories concerning the timing of the rapture in relation to the 7 year 'false' peace treaty. Some say 3,7,10 years, some say minutes, hours or even days. Just wondering. The verses talking about dwelling securely, without walls and gates surrounding the villages, besides the wall separating Israel and the hostile nations, are the towns and villages surrounded by walls and gates? If not, would that fit the scenario I previously mentioned?


    In the latter years mentioned in Ezekiel is that referring to the last days or end times?

  7. #1547

    Default What is the timing of the Gog Magog War

    http://www.spiritandtruth.org/questions/91.htm?x=x

    Q91 : The Timing of Gog and Magog

    May I ask you - where do you place the Gog and Magog war in the book of Revelation? Most people seem to place it at the midpoint of the tribulation - which is one of the trumpets I think - not too sure about this one.
    A91 : by Andy Woods

    On Gog and Magog, I recommend Mark Hitchcock's papera that he did at the 2005 pre-trib study group. He does a good job listing all of the options for the timing of the Gog and Magog invasion.

    I lean towards notion that this battle begins in the Tribulation period commensurate with the opening of the second seal.

    However, I think this passage is speaking of something more that just a one time battle. Because the passage concludes with Israel in faith (Ezek 39:22, 29), I see its results lingering all the way to the end of the Tribulation period since this is when other Scripture indicates Israel will be converted (Matt 23:27-29; Zech 12:10).
    Links Mentioned Above
    a - See http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=197.

  8. #1548

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    Quote Originally Posted by michigander View Post
    http://www.spiritandtruth.org/questions/91.htm?x=x

    Q91 : The Timing of Gog and Magog

    May I ask you - where do you place the Gog and Magog war in the book of Revelation? Most people seem to place it at the midpoint of the tribulation - which is one of the trumpets I think - not too sure about this one.
    A91 : by Andy Woods

    On Gog and Magog, I recommend Mark Hitchcock's papera that he did at the 2005 pre-trib study group. He does a good job listing all of the options for the timing of the Gog and Magog invasion.

    I lean towards notion that this battle begins in the Tribulation period commensurate with the opening of the second seal.

    However, I think this passage is speaking of something more that just a one time battle. Because the passage concludes with Israel in faith (Ezek 39:22, 29), I see its results lingering all the way to the end of the Tribulation period since this is when other Scripture indicates Israel will be converted (Matt 23:27-29; Zech 12:10).
    Links Mentioned Above
    a - See http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=197.




    With all due respect I disagree with the above statement, I am not near my bible at the moment so I do not want to say anything as a certainty however I do believe I remember certain specifics of the aforementioned "gog/magog" war such as burning weapons for 7 years, no walls in or around Israel, etc that, together, point to such a conflict occurring during or right after the rapture and during the very beginning of the trib.

  9. #1549
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    Quote Originally Posted by michigander View Post
    http://www.spiritandtruth.org/questions/91.htm?x=x

    Q91 : The Timing of Gog and Magog

    May I ask you - where do you place the Gog and Magog war in the book of Revelation? Most people seem to place it at the midpoint of the tribulation - which is one of the trumpets I think - not too sure about this one.
    A91 : by Andy Woods

    On Gog and Magog, I recommend Mark Hitchcock's papera that he did at the 2005 pre-trib study group. He does a good job listing all of the options for the timing of the Gog and Magog invasion.

    I lean towards notion that this battle begins in the Tribulation period commensurate with the opening of the second seal.

    However, I think this passage is speaking of something more that just a one time battle. Because the passage concludes with Israel in faith (Ezek 39:22, 29), I see its results lingering all the way to the end of the Tribulation period since this is when other Scripture indicates Israel will be converted (Matt 23:27-29; Zech 12:10).
    Links Mentioned Above
    a - See http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=197.
    I am of the belief that the events of Ezekiel 38 & 39 will occur prior to the Tribulation. Ezekiel tells us that that the invaders weapons will be burned for 7 years. In the middle of the Tribulation the AC commits the Abomination of Desolation and Israel flees to the wilderness/Jordan. I have read, and agree with, speculation that the events of Ezekiel 38 & 39 could occur up to 3.5 years prior to the Tribulation, which would give time for the burning of the weapons. However, all of our discussion is just speculation; only God knows the true timing.

    In regards to Psalm 83. It is my belief that this is prophetic and this prophecy started fulfillment in 1945 with the formation of the League of Arab Nations. If you look at the founding members, you will notice they match exactly to the areas listed in Psalm 83. The very purpose for the foundation of the League of Arab Nations was to prevent a Jewish state from forming. Following the formation of Israel in 1948, the purpose of the League of Arab Nations switched from prevention of the Jewish state to the elimination of the Jewish state.

    Another reason that I believe Psalm 83 is going to occur is that there are details in Ezekiel 38 & 39 that make sense when you put Psalm 83's fulfillment prior to the Gog Magog invasion. These details are the following: Ezekiel 38 & 39 tell us that Israel is living in presumed peace without walls; the enemies listed in Psalm 83 are missing from Ezekiel 38 & 39; and Gog is buried in a valley that is considered part of Israel in Ezekiel, but is currently located in the nation of Jordan.

  10. #1550
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    I am of the belief that the events of Ezekiel 38 & 39 will occur prior to the Tribulation.
    I agree and if you're watching this war seems hauntingly close. Which means the Rapture is even closer!!

    YSIC,
    Diane
    Diane
    Psalm 108:1 - my heart is determined.

    #T h e C o m i n g C h r i s t M o v i e

    #S c r i p t u r e S e e d s



  11. #1551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon300 View Post
    I am of the belief that the events of Ezekiel 38 & 39 will occur prior to the Tribulation. Ezekiel tells us that that the invaders weapons will be burned for 7 years. In the middle of the Tribulation the AC commits the Abomination of Desolation and Israel flees to the wilderness/Jordan. I have read, and agree with, speculation that the events of Ezekiel 38 & 39 could occur up to 3.5 years prior to the Tribulation, which would give time for the burning of the weapons. However, all of our discussion is just speculation; only God knows the true timing.

    In regards to Psalm 83. It is my belief that this is prophetic and this prophecy started fulfillment in 1945 with the formation of the League of Arab Nations. If you look at the founding members, you will notice they match exactly to the areas listed in Psalm 83. The very purpose for the foundation of the League of Arab Nations was to prevent a Jewish state from forming. Following the formation of Israel in 1948, the purpose of the League of Arab Nations switched from prevention of the Jewish state to the elimination of the Jewish state.

    Another reason that I believe Psalm 83 is going to occur is that there are details in Ezekiel 38 & 39 that make sense when you put Psalm 83's fulfillment prior to the Gog Magog invasion. These details are the following: Ezekiel 38 & 39 tell us that Israel is living in presumed peace without walls; the enemies listed in Psalm 83 are missing from Ezekiel 38 & 39; and Gog is buried in a valley that is considered part of Israel in Ezekiel, but is currently located in the nation of Jordan.


  12. #1552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gideon300 View Post
    I am of the belief that the events of Ezekiel 38 & 39 will occur prior to the Tribulation. Ezekiel tells us that that the invaders weapons will be burned for 7 years. In the middle of the Tribulation the AC commits the Abomination of Desolation and Israel flees to the wilderness/Jordan. I have read, and agree with, speculation that the events of Ezekiel 38 & 39 could occur up to 3.5 years prior to the Tribulation, which would give time for the burning of the weapons. However, all of our discussion is just speculation; only God knows the true timing.
    I agree that only God knows the true timing, but I tend to lean towards it happening after the Rapture.
    I don't agree with it coinciding with the second seal (I don't remember who said that) because I see that seal as a forecast of general chaos, anarchy, or a civil war without formal armies (widespread guerrilla warfare).


    In regards to Psalm 83. It is my belief that this is prophetic and this prophecy started fulfillment in 1945 with the formation of the League of Arab Nations. If you look at the founding members, you will notice they match exactly to the areas listed in Psalm 83. The very purpose for the foundation of the League of Arab Nations was to prevent a Jewish state from forming. Following the formation of Israel in 1948, the purpose of the League of Arab Nations switched from prevention of the Jewish state to the elimination of the Jewish state.

    Another reason that I believe Psalm 83 is going to occur is that...
    You believe this prophesy is already in progress, but is going to occur?
    I think you mean the scenario is in progress of being set up, but the fall of Damascus is going to occur?
    Do you see any steps that need to happen before Damascus is destroyed?

  13. #1553
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRex2 View Post
    I agree that only God knows the true timing, but I tend to lean towards it happening after the Rapture.
    I don't agree with it coinciding with the second seal (I don't remember who said that) because I see that seal as a forecast of general chaos, anarchy, or a civil war without formal armies (widespread guerrilla warfare).
    I do believe that the Church will not be here to see the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38 & 39. That said, there is nothing in prophecy that states that the tribulation must start as soon as Jesus returns for his Bride. There could be a brief time period that directly precedes the tribulation.

    You believe this prophesy is already in progress, but is going to occur?
    I think you mean the scenario is in progress of being set up, but the fall of Damascus is going to occur?
    Do you see any steps that need to happen before Damascus is destroyed?
    Correct. That was a poor choice of words on my part. I should have stated "I believe Psalm 83 is currently in progress of being fulfilled..."

    I think we are on the verge of seeing Isaiah 17 fulfilled. Many that study eschatology place Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 as the same event, which I believe they very well could be correct. God only knows for sure, so we shall see.

    Fulfillment of Isaiah 17: There are reports out of Israel that Assad has built underground facilities under the city of Damascus and the only way Israel can destroy these facilities would be to totally annihilate the actual city of Damascus:

    http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Syr...amascus-444978

    Tensions on the Israel-Syrian border have started to heat up again. Israel has been conducting airstrikes into Syria to take out Hezbollah targets, and now Syria is threatening Israel with SCUD missile strikes:

    http://www.businessinsider.com/syria...strikes-2017-3

    Israel has started taking delivery of US built F-35 Lightening II's and will soon have a force of 50 F-35's. These multi-purpose jets have true stealth technology and will make it that much easier for Israel to get in and strike Syria (or any of its enemies..if provoked) whenever is needed.

  14. #1554
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    I certainly hope Isaiah 17 is a long way off from being fulfilled. And that is not only because a large city with a million or more souls in it would be annihilated, but further the consequences for Israel itself would be quite grim:

    Isaiah 17 NKJV:

    4 “In that day it shall come to pass
    That the glory of Jacob will wane,
    And the fatness of his flesh grow lean.

    5 It shall be as when the harvester gathers the grain,
    And reaps the heads with his arm;
    It shall be as he who gathers heads of grain
    In the Valley of Rephaim.

    6 Yet gleaning grapes will be left in it,
    Like the shaking of an olive tree,
    Two or three olives at the top of the uppermost bough,
    Four or five in its most fruitful branches,”
    Says the Lord God of Israel.

    I think the destruction of a large city would be met with such outrage that it will spark the Psalm 83 war...which would probably see Israel come under a sustained barrage of rockets from Hezbollah, Hamas and Syria. By the time Israel takes out the rocket depots, several thousand would have already landed in Israel and caused devastation.

  15. #1555
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    If you believe verses 3 and 4 of that chapter are one continuous
    thought (something that is not necessarily so, since chapter
    divisions are an invention of modern man) then these things
    take place after the Rapture.
    In that day it shall come to pass
    The expression "in that day," in the books of the prophets, always
    refers to after the Rapture, it always refers to "The Day of The Lord."

  16. #1556
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumSam View Post
    I certainly hope Isaiah 17 is a long way off from being fulfilled. And that is not only because a large city with a million or more souls in it would be annihilated, but further the consequences for Israel itself would be quite grim:

    Isaiah 17 NKJV:

    4 “In that day it shall come to pass
    That the glory of Jacob will wane,
    And the fatness of his flesh grow lean.

    5 It shall be as when the harvester gathers the grain,
    And reaps the heads with his arm;
    It shall be as he who gathers heads of grain
    In the Valley of Rephaim.

    6 Yet gleaning grapes will be left in it,
    Like the shaking of an olive tree,
    Two or three olives at the top of the uppermost bough,
    Four or five in its most fruitful branches,”
    Says the Lord God of Israel.

    I think the destruction of a large city would be met with such outrage that it will spark the Psalm 83 war...which would probably see Israel come under a sustained barrage of rockets from Hezbollah, Hamas and Syria. By the time Israel takes out the rocket depots, several thousand would have already landed in Israel and caused devastation.
    Sometimes I wonder if Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 are the same war since both of them end with an act of God (Psalm 83:15; Ezekiel 38:18-22) that results in the nations knowing that God is Great and is the Most High over all the earth (Psalm 83:18; Ezekiel 38:23.)
    And could it be that Damascus will become a ruinous heap during that time as well? Isaiah 17:4-6 seem to describe what Isreal will be like during the time of Jacob's trouble, with v. 7 saying, On that day people will look to their Maker and will turn their eyes to the Holy One of Isreal.

    Time will tell how it will all take place. What a blessing it is to know that this crazy world isn't our home.

  17. #1557
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koalie View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 are the same war since both of them end with an act of God (Psalm 83:15; Ezekiel 38:18-22) that results in the nations knowing that God is Great and is the Most High over all the earth (Psalm 83:18; Ezekiel 38:23.)
    And could it be that Damascus will become a ruinous heap during that time as well? Isaiah 17:4-6 seem to describe what Isreal will be like during the time of Jacob's trouble, with v. 7 saying, On that day people will look to their Maker and will turn their eyes to the Holy One of Isreal.

    Time will tell how it will all take place. What a blessing it is to know that this crazy world isn't our home.
    That is one of the reasons that I think there may be a gap in time here. It is generally understood that The Prophets could not see into the Church Age, but that their sight line has a gap from the Crucifixion to the Rapture. If the destruction of Damascus described in Isaiah 17 happens before the Rapture, then the Prophet would see the ruins of the once great city, but would not know how long it had been destroyed.

    I don't see anywhere that any of the prophets say anything about how Damascus came to ruin.
    (Someone please correct me, if they know differently)

  18. #1558
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    Default Prophecy & Rapture...

    I believe some things need to happen before the rapture takes place. I believe the war of Psalm 83 must happen along w/the war of Ezekiel 38..there are wars mentioned in places such as Isaiah... The destruction of Damascus.. also the war Jerimiah speaks of and the war in Obadiah, however there is a war no one ever speaks of and that's the war in Ezekiel 35..which..if one can see it, tells of the rise and fall of Islam. I got chills years ago when I discovered this chapter and I saw Islam dripping in every word of this Prophecy. I have come to wonder if maybe this is also the Psalm 83 war? The prophecy in Jeremiah may have something to do with the Ezekiel 38 war because Jeremiah predicts that the Godly people of Elam will be able to escape Elam. I've heard that the Christians of Iraq are looking forward to the day this Prophecy happens, there are those that believe that the Trib will not start immediately that after the rapture there may be a few or many years in between the two, but the original word in Greek used to describe the event means to snatch away, for example: a person would snatch someone up by the hair of the head to keep them from being plowed under by a fast moving object such as a train or a semi truck, which means, there is no time between said rescue and the loss of ones life, therefore I don't believe there is time for any of these wars to happen after the rapture, after all in the Ezekiel 38 war the Jews get seven years to burn the weapons left by the defeated armies and seven months to bury the bodies, and that coalition comes to an unwalled peaceable Israel...after the AC desecrates the temple the Jews will no longer have the freedom to burn weapons, they will be running for their lives or fighting for them..as the AC will be slaughtering them for the next three and a half years, I also don't believe the AC has anything at all to do with the building of the Trib Temple, I believe the Temple will be built during the peace that comes after the Psalm 83 war and the destruction of Damascus which Isaiah says will be done by Israel itself. I believe Christians will be here to see a lot of prophecy take place..I have many thoughts on the subject..these are just some of them..what do ya'll think?
    Last edited by katt; August 17th, 2017 at 12:24 PM. Reason: typo in title, tried to fix it but couldn't.

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