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Thread: Psalm 83 War & Fall of Damascus

  1. #21
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    Smile Preserved

    Do you have an url for this picture and write up... would sure like it if you do as want to send this to a friend... Thanks...
    1 John 4 : 4
    Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


  2. #22
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    there is metals that will burn,magnesium is one of them and it burns very intensely.i imagine there is a material they make fighter planes and other things that Israel will burn or use for fuel.i forgot what material the fighter planes and tanks where made out of but it was discovered during the Gulf war that some parts can actually burn.the Weapons Iraq used were supplied by Russia.food for thought anyway.
    In God I Trust


  3. #23
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    Default Psalm 83

    I have been listening to a couple different bible prophecy teachers and they seem to think for israel to be living securely in there land that the Psalm 83 war will happen. That is when Isael defeats it's arab neighbors. Then she thinks she is safe....thats when Russia becomes the big bear..and decides to flood into Israel. They have been saying that Psalm 83 has not been fulfilled and Israel is not dwelling safely yet. Please read Psalm 83 and tell me what you think.

  4. #24
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    An attack on irans nuke plants, retaliation by hezbollah,hamas, Psalm 83 ends with Isaiah 17. Peace and safety Ezekiel 38.

  5. #25
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    Yes, that's what I was hearing as I was studying and hearing yesterday. I had never heard this before. Thank you for the clarification.

  6. #26
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    Just an opinion that does seem to fit with the world today sis.

  7. #27
    rjmamula Guest

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    Grant Jeffrey observes that "unwalled villages" is to be taken in a litteral sense. That it does not mean false sense of security but rather in Ezekials time almost no village was without walls.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjmamula View Post
    Grant Jeffrey observes that "unwalled villages" is to be taken in a litteral sense. That it does not mean false sense of security but rather in Ezekials time almost no village was without walls.

    Isreal currently has some security walls built.. That means the walls must come down. In todays age, a security wall really isnt much security with rockets and bulldozers. But Ezekial predicted this accuratly 2500 years ago that there would be walls to be taken down....

  9. #29
    rjmamula Guest

    Default My position on Isaiah 17/Psalm 83/Ezekiel 38,39

    I have read many thoughts on this board and elsewhere in regard to the above prophetic wars. Most views have merit and have their strong and weak points. With that said here are my observations.

    Some contend that Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 will precede and be the provocation of Ezekiel 38 & 39. This school of thought points out that Israel's neighboring countries that are mentioned in Psalm 83 are not listed among the countries of the Gog & Magog coalition of Ezekiel. However, the list in Ezekiel contains some very key words: "and many others." Could it be that these other countries are the ones listed in Psalm 83 and that the two wars are one and the same?

    Some contend that the destruction of the countries in Psalm 83 is a victory of the Israeli army, while the defeat of the Gog & Magog coalition is entirely the work of God without any involvement of the Israeli army. Having read Psalm 83 to try to verify that, I have found no mention of the Israeli army in the psalm. In fact, the author of the author of the Psalm calls upon "God" to defeat them and blow them away. In both passages, the enemy has the same goal: to end Israel's existence as a nation.

    Now for Isaiah 17. This passage says that all of Damascus and most of the rest of Syria will be destroyed and that Israel will be crippled. Reading further, it says that afterward Israel will return to The Lord. That is just what Ezekiel says will happen after the Gog & Magog war. Could all three of these prophecies be part of the same war?

    I have read material by prophecy experts (i.e. Grant Jeffrey, John Hagee) in regard to the Gog and Magog war which makes no mention of Isaiah 17 or Psalm 83 being the provocation of this war. Of course, these authors are fallible and I disagree with them on a variety of points.

    Will Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 be necessary to provoke the Gog & Magog war? Well with the way things are shaping up little is needed to provoke the Gog & Magog war beyond an Israeli strike on Iran, which at this point seems inevadible.

    As I am fallible, I acknowledge I could be wrong. I adhere to the advice to read the Bible without any outside influence on what it is suppose to say. Equally important to knowing what the Bible says is knowing what it does not say. I welcome your thoughts on this.

  10. #30
    Biblenuggetlady Guest

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    Personally, and I am not an authority and definitely fallible.

    I have been a fence sitter on the Is 17 passage being a pretrib/pre Gog/Magog event.

    Ps 83, I just don't think we can be dogmatic on this and much of the Ps83 prophecies are a recent teaching that gained popularity after a Bible was found opened to this passage in this decade.

    Looking at verses that precede and follow a section often give more insight and clues. Psalm 83 is preceeded by Ps 82 which parallels with Ps 2 and 58 when God calls the world leaders together and issues his judgment against man's rebellion and complete lack of a moral compass. This Psalm looks forward to God ushering His Kingdom and righteousness. So it would seem that Ps 83 is part of what brings about that Kingdom.

    Ps 83 is an imprecatory Psalm, a prayer for judgment, which could be a clue to it being an event after the Age of Grace is over. That could still be pretrib if the rapture precedes the trib by any amount of time. Remember, "we" are not called to pray for judgment in this age, imprecatory prayers....but we are to pray for our enemies and for people to repent.

    2 Chron. 20 is the chapter that speaks of an event that parallels this Psalm, but it can't be the fulfillment of it because the Kingdom is not established yet, there must be a future fulfillment. Also, in Judges 6-8 are the chapters that speak of the time when the Midianites were destroyed and Barak and Deborah defeated Jabin in Judges 4. Again though, there must be a future fulfillment too.

    The Psalm ends with "that they may know that You alone are God"...this too seems to imply the time of "revelation".

    Ps 84 and 85 are looking towards salvation and restoration and the MK. Ps 83 is sandwiched between all of these, so it could be a clue to "timing" but the only "timing clue" I find is that it might be after the rapture since the Psalm is imprecatory, like I said...not something prayed for during the Age of Grace.

  11. #31
    JefferyDollars Guest

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    5For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:

    6The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;

    7Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;

    8Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.


    I am not an authority on Psalm 83 or Ezekiel 38 or anything but here is what I have thought up....
    I know in the Ezekiel prophecies it lists nations whose names are no longer the same like Persia is now Iran. So in Psalm 83 when it mentions the various peoples that will form a confederate agaisnt Israel (Edom,Ishmaelites,Hagarenes,Gebal,Ammon,Amalek,the Philistines and the inhabitants of Tyre) is it safe to say that the names given represent a specific people of today and that if that is the case the names given dont seem to match up to the names given in the Ezekiel prophecy so with the absence of countries like Russia wouldnt it be safe to assume that Psalm 83 speaks of a different prophecy of events? That are maybe much closer to fulfillment with what is currently going on with Israel and its Arab neighbors?

  12. #32
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    After Psalm 83 there will be no need for the present wall.

  13. #33
    Biblenuggetlady Guest

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    I adhere to the advice to read the Bible without any outside influence on what it is suppose to say.
    And a very hearty amen to that statement!

    In this regard, I challenge anyone to provide a single detail from the Hebrew text of Ezekiel 38 and 39, (in context with the book as a whole and particularly in context with the five previous visions given to the prophet on the night before word arrived that Jerusalem had fallen to the Babylonians) that supports a premillennial as opposed to postmillennial fulmillment of the Gog-Magog invasion described in these chapters.

  15. #35
    rjmamula Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkycharlie View Post
    And a very hearty amen to that statement!

    In this regard, I challenge anyone to provide a single detail from the Hebrew text of Ezekiel 38 and 39, (in context with the book as a whole and particularly in context with the five previous visions given to the prophet on the night before word arrived that Jerusalem had fallen to the Babylonians) that supports a premillennial as opposed to postmillennial fulmillment of the Gog-Magog invasion described in these chapters.

    The best argument that the Gog and Magog of Ezekiel is a separate event from the one in Revelation is that Ezekiel says that they will be burning the weapons for 7 years, whereas immediately after the one in Revelation, the earth gets its remodeling job.

  16. #36
    heybales219 Guest

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    I suppose I would offer up this:

    It doesn't seems appropriate to my feeble mind that Israel would be burning weapons for 7 years at the end of the millennial kingdom because that would mean they are burning the weapons into Eternity, which is not possible. Ezekiel also says they will be burying the dead for 7 months, which I would posit would also carry over into Eternity, and again is not possible.

  17. #37
    heybales219 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjmamula View Post
    The best argument that the Gog and Magog of Ezekiel is a separate event from the one in Revelation is that Ezekiel says that they will be burning the weapons for 7 years, whereas immediately after the one in Revelation, the earth gets its remodeling job.
    Looks like you beat me to the punch,

  18. #38
    4EverHis Guest

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    rjmamula
    Some contend that Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 will precede and be the provocation of Ezekiel 38 & 39. This school of thought points out that Israel's neighboring countries that are mentioned in Psalm 83 are not listed among the countries of the Gog & Magog coalition of Ezekiel. However, the list in Ezekiel contains some very key words: "and many others." Could it be that these other countries are the ones listed in Psalm 83 and that the two wars are one and the same?
    "Many others" are believed to be the former, and perhaps reunited, satellite nations of Russia. God knows specifically the names of the Arabs nations that surround Israel, as He will see to it that they are destroyed.

    Some contend that the destruction of the countries in Psalm 83 is a victory of the Israeli army, while the defeat of the Gog & Magog coalition is entirely the work of God without any involvement of the Israeli army. Having read Psalm 83 to try to verify that, I have found no mention of the Israeli army in the psalm. In fact, the author of the author of the Psalm calls upon "God" to defeat them and blow them away. In both passages, the enemy has the same goal: to end Israel's existence as a nation.
    Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 are two very different events. We dont know for sure the actual cause of the demise of Damascus for example in Isaiah 17, but with Ezekiel 38, God makes it more that clear that it is He, and He alone that destroys Gog and his followers. JMHO, but Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 are the same event.

    Now for Isaiah 17. This passage says that all of Damascus and most of the rest of Syria will be destroyed and that Israel will be crippled. Reading further, it says that afterward Israel will return to The Lord. That is just what Ezekiel says will happen after the Gog & Magog war. Could all three of these prophecies be part of the same war?
    Isaiah 17 is not just about the distruction of Damascus, but also Jordan and the West Bank. Israel will indeed suffer greatly, and be left completely helpless. As the nations surrounding Israel are easily drawn in, Psalm 83 occurs at the same time. Just something that struck me...between the two.
    Psalm 83:13
    13. O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.

    And then God does what was requested:

    Isaiah 17:13
    13.The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them, and they shall flee far off, and shall be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like a rolling thing before the whirlwind.

    I have read material by prophecy experts (i.e. Grant Jeffrey, John Hagee) in regard to the Gog and Magog war which makes no mention of Isaiah 17 or Psalm 83 being the provocation of this war. Of course, these authors are fallible and I disagree with them on a variety of points.
    Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83, is the event that has already occurred, setting the stage for Ezekiel 38. An "evil thought" is the first part of a continued explanation as to the Gog invasion. Anger, retaliation...is an "evil thought".

    Will Isaiah 17/Psalm 83 be necessary to provoke the Gog & Magog war? Well with the way things are shaping up little is needed to provoke the Gog & Magog war beyond an Israeli strike on Iran, which at this point seems inevadible.
    A strike on Iran, then Damascus, could easily provoke Russia. They are heavily invested in both countries. Isaiah 17/ Psalm 83 lays the ground work, sets the stage for Ezekiel 38.
    The Holy Spirit is our guide with discernment when studying Scripture. We are all learning. In studying it is of course what God says, but we also have to see what God doesnít say.

  19. #39
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    BNL - I appreciate your very thoughtful reply on this subject - I feel my opinion is much like yours about not being dogmatic about this. I also appreciate your explanations as to why it most likely is not a precursor to Ezek 38-39.

    I have been a lot skeptical about the fulfillment of Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 being NECESSARY prior to Ezekiel 38-39.

    I will admit I have not read "Isralestine" which is the most prominent book that outlines this. This book is on my list to get and read - in the meantime I've listened to some of Bill Salus' interviews on the net concerning this subject. I have also noticed a couple of things from those that most strongly promote this scenario from this board:
    • very broad statements are made and a lot of conjecture is used that may inspire, but for me hasn't proven anything or for that matter convinced me it is highly plausible or necessary
    • comments are made like "Psalm 83/Isaiah 17 WILL happen before Ezek 38-39 or ARE separate events, etc" and then not back it up with scripture or a reasonable explanation as to why that is.


    Now, this may be a reflection of those making statements on this board and not Bill Salus who has set forth these ideas in his book.

    If I later become convinced otherwise, I will most publicly let you all know. In the meantime, I will remain a bit skeptical and will continue reading and studying these texts.
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

  20. #40
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    4EverHis - I've more fully read your reply and you did give several comments with scripture. I was a bit tired last night and probably should not have responded for that reason alone.

    What I was trying to say, is I'd like more scripture and reasoning concerning "timing" of Psalm 83 / Isaiah 17 event(s). For instance in the Ezek 38 war, as pointed out by another poster, we can know a time frame just because of the burning fuel and burying bodies. These are the type of references or proof I'm looking for. So far, I haven't seen this in scripture or in anyone's posts on the subject. Perhaps I've missed it?
    John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the WAY and the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the Father except through Me."

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