Children in Heaven

[fwilly1]

LOL! Why should ANYBODY suffer in the Tribulation and not those before? Why should Christians and small children who have already died get to escape the horrors of the Tribulation, just because they died before it started? For that matter, why should the living Church also get to escape?

Forgive me, but I don't really see your logic in your answer. Rather the emotionalism of "Why should some get to escape the suffering that others are forced to endure?"--the same logic that some are, even now, using regarding Christians in the United States who aren't being maimed, tortured, killed, imprisoned, enslaved, murdered, etc., etc., just because we have believed on the name of Jesus (as, sad to say, others are enduring in Moslem and Communist countries). The simple, logical answer is that God is not going to close the wombs of all women who are left behind at the Rapture--they will still be capable of having children, and many will. Don't forget Jesus' prediction of "woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers" when the time comes to escape Jerusalem during the abomination of desolation--that, alone, tells me that there will definitely be children born during that time period.

As for children betraying their parents, well, can anyone look up the original Greek for that word used in that verse, to find out whether that verse was referring to literal children below the age of accountability when the Rapture occurs? I'm thinking that it could have been youth--kids who are in their teens, perhaps--that verse was speaking of, as I can't see a young child, below the age of accountability when the Rapture takes place, having the heartlessness to turn his own parents over to the authorities. A teenager, on the other hand, just might, if he's been corrupted by the Antichrist government.

At least, that's what I'm figuring, anyway.



Kathy G.

Children can also be in their 20's, 30's, 40's, etc etc........ their still someones child although " grown child "

[GreenEyedLady]

For children too young to understand as well as for older believers, regardless of whether their parents know or knew Jesus or not.

Now--for those of you who believe that innocent young children whose parents are unsaved can expect to bear the blast and fury of God's wrath in the Tribulation instead of being counted innocent in God's eyes, go ahead!



Yours truly,
Kathy G.

Kathy,
I agree with everything you said. I think when the rapture happens, all of the babies in the womb of those who are lost will also go up to heaven. I believe that the belly's of the women who are with child will literally be deflated at the sound of the trumpet.

[Sydney Spider]

If all children below the age of accountability are included in the Rapture, what about intellectually disabled adults, who are totally incapable of understanding the gospel?

[kgreen20]

If all children below the age of accountability are included in the Rapture, what about intellectually disabled adults, who are totally incapable of understanding the gospel?

The same principle applies to them. Because of their mental retardation, they always have the innocence of a child, so they never reach the age of accountability.

[LaMontre]

Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

I would not necessarily press salvation into that verse, but I would consider, that if there was only a short time before the end (say, 7 years perhaps), that there might be literally millions of children who would not take the mark of the beast within that timeframe (because of their age) and yet would not necessarily be believers either. In that instance, their parents might be sent to hell, but they themselves would be spared to live on into the MK. It does seem that, below a certain maturity level would simply automatically be spared. However, going in the rapture, is another matter. I mean, all of the scenarios to which Jesus compares the final judgement (Sodom and Gomorah & Noah's flood) all have the entire population being left to be destroyed, including the children. But it seems to me that the MOB is the great divider of the sheep and the goats at the end of the tribulation.

Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

[chazanna11]

I don't believe that the children of the unsaved will go in the Rapture. This would mean that all children under the age of accountability (whatever that age is) would be gone. God knows people before they are even born and He knows whether or not they are going to be saved, even before they are born. Is that correct? Doesn't the Bible say that God even knows the number of hairs on our head and knows when a sparrow falls? In this case, He does know us intimately, even before we are born. We are told that God knows us in the womb. But do you think I have a wrong description of who God is? I'm not sure. I always saw God as all-knowing. We read prophecy in our Bible and we believe it because God knows the beginning from the end.

[TrustingHim]

Merry Christmas and much love to my sisters and brothers here. And thank you, Sing4Him and Joseph the Carpenter, for remembering us.

I'm posting here a poem that hopefully will be comforting (and hopefully will not get me in any copyright trouble)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Christmas In Heaven
I see the countless Christmas trees around the world below
with tiny lights like heaven's stars reflecting on the snow.

The sight is so spectacular please wipe away that tear
for I am spending Christmas with Jesus Christ this year.

I hear the many Christmas songs that people hold so dear
but the sounds of music can't compare with the Christmas choir up here.

I have no words to tell you of the joy their voices bring
for it is beyond description to hear the angels sing.

I know how much you miss me, I see the pain inside your heart
for I am spending Christmas with Jesus Christ this year.

I can't tell you of the splendor or the peace here in this place
Can you just imagine Christmas with our Savior face to face?

I'll ask him to lift your spirit as I tell him of your love
so then pray for one another as you lift your eyes above.

Please let your hearts be joyful and let your spirit sing
for I am spending Christmas in heaven and I'm walking with the King.

Wanda Bencke, "copyright 1998"

---------------------------------------------

Love,
Trusting

[pumkin67]

Please remember my family and daughter Kayla. I was expecting a grandbaby, but he has gone to live in heaven with my son Ricky. I wish life wasn't so hard.

[Faith&Hope]

Please remember my family and daughter Kayla. I was expecting a grandbaby, but he has gone to live in heaven with my son Ricky. I wish life wasn't so hard.

pumpkin, I'm so sorry. Prayers for Kayla and your family. You know Ricky is taking care of his baby nephew. Your grandbaby is safe in the arms of Jesus. It's so hard for us here though. Come soon Lord Jesus.

[jayna]

Please remember my family and daughter Kayla. I was expecting a grandbaby, but he has gone to live in heaven with my son Ricky. I wish life wasn't so hard.

I know you were looking forward to your new grandbaby. Our Lord's ways certainly aren't our ways, but we will understand it all one day. We know there was a reason for this.
God Bless you.

[Faith&Hope]

Merry Christmas and much love to my sisters and brothers here. And thank you, Sing4Him and Joseph the Carpenter, for remembering us.

I'm posting here a poem that hopefully will be comforting (and hopefully will not get me in any copyright trouble)
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Christmas In Heaven
I see the countless Christmas trees around the world below
with tiny lights like heaven's stars reflecting on the snow.

The sight is so spectacular please wipe away that tear
for I am spending Christmas with Jesus Christ this year.

I hear the many Christmas songs that people hold so dear
but the sounds of music can't compare with the Christmas choir up here.

I have no words to tell you of the joy their voices bring
for it is beyond description to hear the angels sing.

I know how much you miss me, I see the pain inside your heart
for I am spending Christmas with Jesus Christ this year.

I can't tell you of the splendor or the peace here in this place
Can you just imagine Christmas with our Savior face to face?

I'll ask him to lift your spirit as I tell him of your love
so then pray for one another as you lift your eyes above.

Please let your hearts be joyful and let your spirit sing
for I am spending Christmas in heaven and I'm walking with the King.

Wanda Bencke, "copyright 1998"

---------------------------------------------

Love,
Trusting

I can read that over and over and over. Thank you, Trusting

[StillLearningbutFaithful]

I read most of the opinions in this thread and I think it is a very interesting topic...especially on the subject of abortion. And although it may sound very simplistic, this is why God is God, he knows what is on all of our hearts and who we are and are going to be. Therefore, his determination in every situation (for each individual) is the correct one. I think we would all like to believe that if God is not the greatest protector of the little ones, then who is? Maybe the answer is so much more complex than we can fathom. Trust that God knows exactly where everyone of every age belongs. Am I on the right track?

[Philippians1:21]

Im sure the point I will raise may have been mentioned on this thread..but who has got the time to scroll through 84 pages.

Genesis 2:7 (King James Version)

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Anyway, I am of the belief according to genesis 2:7 that God has made it clear that man has no soul until God has breathed the breath of life into his nostrils.

This verse shows that Adam was first formed and then the breath of life was breathed into his lungs and he then had a soul.

Don't get me wrong though I am completely opposed to abortion, however, since the aborted foetus had no breath of life, I believe they had no soul breathed into them.

I just believe that your soul exists in this body from your first breath to your last breath.

[StillLearningbutFaithful]

Im sure the point I will raise may have been mentioned on this thread..but who has got the time to scroll through 84 pages.

Genesis 2:7 (King James Version)

7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


Anyway, I am of the belief according to genesis 2:7 that God has made it clear that man has no soul until God has breathed the breath of life into his nostrils.

This verse shows that Adam was first formed and then the breath of life was breathed into his lungs and he then had a soul.

Don't get me wrong though I am completely opposed to abortion, however, since the aborted foetus had no breath of life, I believe they had no soul breathed into them.

I just believe that your soul exists in this body from your first breath to your last breath.

You know "Phill" it's funny that you say that because I have often thought ...how could God alllow or accept so many murdered infants...and then thought to myself...maybe (and I stress maybe) in knowing in advance which babies would be aborted they were never little souls to begin with....maybe, just maybe the test/lesson was for the mother. I think the abortion issue itself is so complex that, again, we maybe are not able to know or even fathom what God knows. Not that I am saying in any way that I believe there is any discussion about whether abortion is right or wrong. It is definitely WRONG. But, lets look at the souls of the mothers..example.. the 14 year old girl gone astray whos parents make her get an abortion. Or a young girl with no Christian upbringing who really believes all the falsehoods that society puts forth and that its "just a procedure" and "its really not a baby" only to come to Christ later and learn differently. Did God allow a little soul to be sacraficed for that mother to learn that lesson? And what about the unrepentent woman who has had one or many abortions and never comes to realize the error of her ways? Was a little soul sacraficed for her as well. Seems very complex to me and one worth pondering.

[SaintTexas]

God could care less what we think! The forum might be one of opinion, but let's look to His Word for the Truth instead and see what His is on any question.

So far, the only Truth I have seen that applies to our question without us adding anything of our own to it is 1 Corinithians 7:14. We should be searching His Word for any additional Truth that speaks to our question to Him. That Truth in 1 Corinithians is hard to swallow, and we don't like it.

So what do we know that the Lord has said of His human creation before/at/during conception and in the womb and about children and about ourselves?

Here are a few from Psalms 139:

1 O Lord, you have examined my heart
and know everything about me.
2 You know when I sit down or stand up.
You know my thoughts even when I’m far away.
3 You see me when I travel
and when I rest at home.
You know everything I do.
4 You know what I am going to say
even before I say it, Lord.

and goes on

13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body
and knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex!
Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.
15 You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion,
as I was woven together in the dark of the womb.
16 You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.

and then it ends with:

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 Point out anything in me that offends you,
and lead me along the path of everlasting life.

Here is a Psalm of one who has a relationship with the Lord. But it also illustrates that the Lord knows hearts and knows His creation. I did a word search for "chosen" in Biblegateway, and it's too long to post (plus I believe that I have not posted enough to put a link into my responses yet--so feel free to do it yourself to see the 4 pages of verses it generates), but it says over and over the God makes the choice about us (John 15:16). He chooses and there are things only He knows about us before He made us. Surely, where we stand with our salvation is part of that since He is all-knowing. He knows hearts, the beginning and end of the story and is the author of our faith.

I believe there is something to 1 Corinthians 7:14; it's just hard to hear the truth---whose heart does not go out to any suffering child, in particular the unborn? Who would ever want to consider the unborn or any child whom we consider innocent to ever end up in hell? Yet, the Lord knows hearts. That's convicting! God's ways are not my own and He has higher thoughts than mine, so even in a verse where I neither like nor understand the content, I am to trust His heart and that He is good (and that I nor any human is good---only God, as Lord Jesus himself said) and that He knows the whole story. I do not. I am not God.

We must continue to pray for the lost that their eyes may be opened to the Truth who is the person of Jesus Christ and allow ourselves to be used to build His kingdom.

[Faith&Hope]

God could care less what we think! The forum might be one of opinion, but let's look to His Word for the Truth instead and see what His is on any question.

So far, the only Truth I have seen that applies to our question without us adding anything of our own to it is 1 Corinithians 7:14. We should be searching His Word for any additional Truth that speaks to our question to Him. That Truth in 1 Corinithians is hard to swallow, and we don't like it.

So what do we know that the Lord has said of His human creation before/at/during conception and in the womb and about children and about ourselves?

Here are a few from Psalms 139:

1 O Lord, you have examined my heart
and know everything about me.
2 You know when I sit down or stand up.
You know my thoughts even when I’m far away.
3 You see me when I travel
and when I rest at home.
You know everything I do.
4 You know what I am going to say
even before I say it, Lord.

and goes on

13 You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body
and knit me together in my mother’s womb.
14 Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex!
Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.
15 You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion,
as I was woven together in the dark of the womb.
16 You saw me before I was born.
Every day of my life was recorded in your book.
Every moment was laid out
before a single day had passed.

and then it ends with:

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
24 Point out anything in me that offends you,
and lead me along the path of everlasting life.

Here is a Psalm of one who has a relationship with the Lord. But it also illustrates that the Lord knows hearts and knows His creation. I did a word search for "chosen" in Biblegateway, and it's too long to post (plus I believe that I have not posted enough to put a link into my responses yet--so feel free to do it yourself to see the 4 pages of verses it generates), but it says over and over the God makes the choice about us (John 15:16). He chooses and there are things only He knows about us before He made us. Surely, where we stand with our salvation is part of that since He is all-knowing. He knows hearts, the beginning and end of the story and is the author of our faith.

I believe there is something to 1 Corinthians 7:14; it's just hard to hear the truth---whose heart does not go out to any suffering child, in particular the unborn? Who would ever want to consider the unborn or any child whom we consider innocent to ever end up in hell? Yet, the Lord knows hearts. That's convicting! God's ways are not my own and He has higher thoughts than mine, so even in a verse where I neither like nor understand the content, I am to trust His heart and that He is good (and that I nor any human is good---only God, as Lord Jesus himself said) and that He knows the whole story. I do not. I am not God.

We must continue to pray for the lost that their eyes may be opened to the Truth who is the person of Jesus Christ and allow ourselves to be used to build His kingdom.

God DOES care what we think. God loves us that much. He cares very much.
I see your a new poster. Have you lost a child?
I don't understand where your coming from with all this
We who have lost children, although we may not understand, we absolutely trust God's heart. That He is a good, loving, sovereign, fair, just and LOVING God.
And yes, He does see the bigger picture, the end of the story. This is not it. This is temporary. The end of the story is when He will wipe every tear from our eyes, when we will see Jesus face to face and when we are reunited with our children. No more pain, no more sorrow, no more death. Thank you, Jesus

What I was referring to is God CHOSE us and our children before the foundation of the world. He knew then where we would be now. He knew what our response would be to the greatest loss imaginable. He knew we would remain Faithful and use our loss for our good and His glory.

He intended to harm me, God intended for good.

Our testimony's alone, that Jesus is the strength we draw from during such an unimaginable loss. He is our light and our salvation. This gives us an opportunity to witness of HIS grace and love, when others ask "How are you getting thru this" I can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me.

All things work together for good for those who love the Lord and are called according to His purpose.

I didn't want to hear this scripture when I lost my son almost two years ago but I look at it differently now.

It doesn't say all things that happen are good. Losing a child is not good BUT He has worked our painful circumstance to be used for good. Many coming to salvation in Christ. I have never been as close to the Lord as I am now. Many in my family, friends.

for you Saint Texas

[SaintTexas]

Yes, we have lost a child through miscarriage two years ago, but both my husband and I were both in Christ before then, so according to 1 Corinthians 7:14, that unborn child would have been holy because at least one of us was a believer. We also have four living children who are 15 months, 3.5, 12, and 16. If you want to pray for me, pray I keep my sanity raising them! LOL

My point in what I posted, while looking through the threads, as I was not relpying to any specific person who posted, but seeing that there is quite a bit of opinion, rather than God's Word and the path is His Truth, not how I would like to twist it to suit how I personally feel about it. Who would like to hear that an unborn or young child of two unbelievers is unholy according to God's Word? Least of all me. Yet, that is what the scripture says.

You are His--His plans for believers is not to perish but to have life everlasting. Some are not His, by choice. You cannot take my comments regarding the Truth of that passage and apply it to yourself as if you are an unbeliever. That is incorrect in the commentary I made and to whose you are!

What this scripture says is that if a mother and father are both unbelieving then there would be no holiness to confer to a child [who would not be at an age where he/she understood the message of the Cross] because neither are holy, correct? We take the scripture at face value, reading nothing into it other than what it plainly states, correct? (Sola Scriptura) However, if one is a believer, then the holiness is conferred to the child, and understanding that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus through personal relationship with Him, that once the child is at an age where he/she encounters the gospel, that child hears the Lord knocking on the door of his/her heart, becomes cognizant to make a decision for Christ (at that time or later---my choice was later. I heard the message more than once).

Here is the same passage from the Amplified Bible:

1 Corinthians 7:14 (Amplified Bible)

14For the unbelieving husband is set apart (separated, withdrawn from heathen contamination, and affiliated with the Christian people) by union with his consecrated (set-apart) wife, and the unbelieving wife is set apart and separated through union with her consecrated husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean (unblessed heathen, [a]outside the Christian covenant), but as it is they are [b]prepared for God [pure and clean].

[Lucinda]

Yes, we have lost a child through miscarriage two years ago, but both my husband and I were both in Christ before then, so according to 1 Corinthians 7:14, that unborn child would have been holy because at least one of us was a believer. We also have four living children who are 15 months, 3.5, 12, and 16. If you want to pray for me, pray I keep my sanity raising them! LOL

My point in what I posted, while looking through the threads, as I was not relpying to any specific person who posted, but seeing that there is quite a bit of opinion, rather than God's Word and the path is His Truth, not how I would like to twist it to suit how I personally feel about it. Who would like to hear that an unborn or young child of two unbelievers is unholy according to God's Word? Least of all me. Yet, that is what the scripture says.

You are His--His plans for believers is not to perish but to have life everlasting. Some are not His, by choice. You cannot take my comments regarding the Truth of that passage and apply it to yourself as if you are an unbeliever. That is incorrect in the commentary I made and to whose you are!

What this scripture says is that if a mother and father are both unbelieving then there would be no holiness to confer to a child [who would not be at an age where he/she understood the message of the Cross] because neither are holy, correct? We take the scripture at face value, reading nothing into it other than what it plainly states, correct? (Sola Scriptura) However, if one is a believer, then the holiness is conferred to the child, and understanding that no one comes to the Father except through Jesus through personal relationship with Him, that once the child is at an age where he/she encounters the gospel, that child hears the Lord knocking on the door of his/her heart, becomes cognizant to make a decision for Christ (at that time or later---my choice was later. I heard the message more than once).

Here is the same passage from the Amplified Bible:

1 Corinthians 7:14 (Amplified Bible)

14For the unbelieving husband is set apart (separated, withdrawn from heathen contamination, and affiliated with the Christian people) by union with his consecrated (set-apart) wife, and the unbelieving wife is set apart and separated through union with her consecrated husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean (unblessed heathen, [a]outside the Christian covenant), but as it is they are [b]prepared for God [pure and clean].

Let me see here are you implying that God would send a child to Hell if the parents were lost at the time that the child died.Is this what your saying

[Faith&Hope]

Life is so much more than what your eyes are seeing, you will find your way if you keep believing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO6DX...eature=related

So fix your eyes not on the things that are seen but on the things that are unseen, for the things that are seen are temporary, the things that are unseen are Eternal ! Thank you, Jesus

[Lucinda]

Life is so much more than what your eyes are seeing, you will find your way if you keep believing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO6DX...eature=related

So fix your eyes not on the things that are seen but on the things that are unseen, for the things that are seen are temporary, the things that are unseen are Eternal ! Thank you, Jesus

I needed this today Thank You Faith