Billy Graham Exposed?

[BornAgain123]

Like I said in other threads-it really, really, really, really pains me to type this, b/c it was through reading his works that I ultimately became saved(the same can be said for my parents and other family members as well), but the more stuff that I've read and heard about him recently, the more I'm shocked to learn about all this. There seems to be concrete evidence too.

And this has nothing to do with him being old and having an illness-apparently, it's been going on since day 1 of his ministries.

[His Bride]

Sad, but true.

[willow]

What good does it do me to know these things? God will judge.....

[BornAgain123]

Amen and Amen..
Way to much Judging going on here for me.
Though I do not support any of these things if they are true about Billy Graham..Anyone want to take a guess on how many thousands if not millions of people that became saved because of his ministeries.. How many people have you brought to Jesus in your life.
God will Judge
God Bless
Randy

OTOH-these articles, videos et al could very well scream "sensationalistic".

Pt being that whether or not this is true about Graham, Satan is jumping with glee when he reads and watches these things, why? B/c he knows materials like these could very well discourage those who got saved watching his sermons as well as make unbelievers who never liked him continue in their unbelieving ways.

Either way-evil never wins, and it's also amazing even with the biggest wolves in sheeps clothing(whether Warren, the Pope, etc), millions of people continue to get saved.

[His Bride]

Amen and Amen..
Way to much Judging going on here for me.
Though I do not support any of these things if they are true about Billy Graham..Anyone want to take a guess on how many thousands if not millions of people that became saved because of his ministeries.. How many people have you brought to Jesus in your life.
God will Judge
God Bless
Randy

It wasn't Billy Graham, nor his crusades that saved people. It was the Holy Spirit. Think we need to remember that God chooses whom He will, and although He uses many men and methods to complete that task, it is and always has been up to Him.

Once again, while we cannot judge the state of a man's salvation because we cannot see his heart, we must take a stand again falsehoods and lies that do not line up with the truth of scripture. It is God's Word alone that we must trust, no matter how much we respect any other individual. I think many of us are loosing sight of that. We are soft on the preachers whom we have respected in the past. And we should be grateful for their ministries when they preached the solid Word of God. However, once anyone begins to compromise and even hint that we are all serving the same God, then we need to draw the line and let others know as well. Doesn't anyone here have a concern for the eternal lives of people who have been led to believe in something other than the Word of God? Christianity is all about the fact that God's Son took the punishment for our sins. And the only way to be saved is trusting in that work ALONE. Add anything else, admit anyone else, any other way, and you've just negated Christ's work. This issue is huge and should not be taken lightly. Lives are on the line!

[randy1953]

It wasn't Billy Graham, nor his crusades that saved people. It was the Holy Spirit. Think we need to remember that God chooses whom He will, and although He uses many men and methods to complete that task, it is and always has been up to Him.

Once again, while we cannot judge the state of a man's salvation because we cannot see his heart, we must take a stand again falsehoods and lies that do not line up with the truth of scripture. It is God's Word alone that we must trust, no matter how much we respect any other individual. I think many of us are loosing sight of that. We are soft on the preachers whom we have respected in the past. And we should be grateful for their ministries when they preached the solid Word of God. However, once anyone begins to compromise and even hint that we are all serving the same God, then we need to draw the line and let others know as well. Doesn't anyone here have a concern for the eternal lives of people who have been led to believe in something other than the Word of God? Christianity is all about the fact that God's Son took the punishment for our sins. And the only way to be saved is trusting in that work ALONE. Add anything else, admit anyone else, any other way, and you've just negated Christ's work. This issue is huge and should not be taken lightly. Lives are on the line!

Yes all very true and I agree 100%. My point is I think I may be seeing way too much whistle blowing going on and very little praying for these souls.
Anyone can blow a whistle and lots of folks get off on thta kind of thing.
what you say is true we need to abide by Gods word and brings these things out but I have a sad feeling that much more time goes into this kind of thing than actual prayer for these folks. It is deep and long prayer that is needed IMO much more that blowing a whistle. Once a whistle is blown the cats out of the bag then lets follow up with serious prayer.It is the blood of Jesus that saves us and why because it is the one and only thing that is accepted by God for our sins. The Blood of Jesus is for God..It is our salavation. But please let us pray for folks like Billy Graham and Oprah etc. I mean spend at least the same amout of time in prayer as writing posts and I think that would be a good place for all of us to start.
I am working on it as I type.
God Bless
Randy

[willow]

Here's what I'm gonna do...If anyone asks me what it takes to enter the kingdom of heaven, I will tell them to believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ , and you will be saved. If anyone asks me to say that there are OTHER ways to get to heaven, or they will kill me....then I'll be a dead chick. (but living on the other side) As far as pulling apart everyone else...I will not do it. Once again, God will judge.

[His Bride]

I guess I don't understand it when you mean that others here are pulling apart everyone else. All they are doing is bringing things into the light of scripture. I, for one, am very grateful. When I thought that I was the only one who opposed Rick Warren's gospel I came here and found that others felt the same way. When I needed to learn about the Shack, I found the information here. I have discerned the compromise of many of my favorite pastors over the years, and I thought that I was alone. But, I wasn't, and the RR board confirmed that the Holy Spirit had moved upon the hearts of others.

I agree that they should be prayed for, but their false gospel must also be uncovered.
I don't think that they should be slammed and condemned, but if their messages are unbiblical then it needs to be brought into the light.

We are never to judge the unbelieving world, nor the condition of a person's heart, however, you show me in scripture where we are not to judge truth from lie. That is called discernment.

[faithmarie]

Paul was one of those whistle blowers. He named names. He judged righteously.
I "got saved watching Pat Robertson! Or, I got saved in spite of him. If the Lord used a donkey He can use these apostate men. I was sorry when I found out about these men and others like them were found apostate, but it NEVER shook my faith, my hope and trust was in the Lord and I was in the word and saw that Paul even rebuked Peter! I want to be judged by godly believers because I know they love me and care for my soul and walk. I want to be teachable.
And we should always pray for those who the Lord puts on our hearts. Who knows they might be get saved .. or if some like me for instance gets off track call me on it. It is only pride if we don't want to be judged.
When people say they don't want to be judged so they don't judge anyone. That is why there is so much apostasy out there.
I had a lot of youth group kids for years. Pastors kids and others. The kids that I saw struggle with their faith or walk away completely were the ones that their parents were secrative about things that were wrong or failings in their church. I believe because they were hidden from the kids. Darkness hates the light. I think we need truth always ..we should love truth .
I know a lot of people who have gotten off and followed wrong teachings and I tell them the truth in love and pray for them. Sometimes we dont speak for years and then when they see the truth our relationships are healed.
My kids and son-in love will call me on things.
jmo

[faithmarie]

Amen His Bride!
I agree with you.
And about disernment! Where is it today??? That is the thing I prayed most for , for myself, my husband and my children.
It is very lonely when you think you are the only one who sees something is wrong. Rapture ready is a real blessing! It confirms encourages and teaches the teachable. JMO

[randy1953]

I guess I don't understand it when you mean that others here are pulling apart everyone else. All they are doing is bringing things into the light of scripture. I, for one, am very grateful. When I thought that I was the only one who opposed Rick Warren's gospel I came here and found that others felt the same way. When I needed to learn about the Shack, I found the information here. I have discerned the compromise of many of my favorite pastors over the years, and I thought that I was alone. But, I wasn't, and the RR board confirmed that the Holy Spirit had moved upon the hearts of others.

I agree that they should be prayed for, but their false gospel must also be uncovered.
I don't think that they should be slammed and condemned, but if their messages are unbiblical then it needs to be brought into the light.

We are never to judge the unbelieving world, nor the condition of a person's heart, however, you show me in scripture where we are not to judge truth from lie. That is called discernment.

i do agree with you and yes any and all false gospels need to be shown for what they are..I am only saying to remember we are in a fallen body..our human nature tends to like bad news more than good news..this is why Newspapers sell so well take a look and see what you read first..
The good news is that prayer works and prayer can bring about much more of a service to Gods word than the 100th person down the line that blew the same whistle..I know it can be a thin line at times ..what I do is when someone says something that seems so far off the path but belives it to be true with their whole heart is I pray to my God for the correct response..

I also remember what Winston Churchill once said if you tell a lie long enough then in time people will belive it to be true. This is very true words have a way of doing just that..Well all words except the unchanging word of God.

God Bless
Randy

[BrideOfChrist]

Wikipedia has him stating the following: "I fully adhere to the fundamental tenets of the Christian faith for myself... but as an American, I respect other paths to God."

His conversation with Robert Schuller that was posted on here previously certainly was eye-opening.

I've always respected Graham. He's an American icon of sorts. He's liked by both conservatives and liberals. But maybe that should tell us something. When has he ever really took a stand for or against anything? He always seems so neutral...agreeable, depending on who he's talking to.

Just goes to show that we shouldn't put any man up on a pedestal. Jesus alone is deserving of our admiration and adoration.

[InHisGrip]

Paul was one of those whistle blowers. He named names. He judged righteously.
I "got saved watching Pat Robertson! Or, I got saved in spite of him. If the Lord used a donkey He can use these apostate men. I was sorry when I found out about these men and others like them were found apostate, but it NEVER shook my faith, my hope and trust was in the Lord and I was in the word and saw that Paul even rebuked Peter! I want to be judged by godly believers because I know they love me and care for my soul and walk. I want to be teachable.
And we should always pray for those who the Lord puts on our hearts. Who knows they might be get saved .. or if some like me for instance gets off track call me on it. It is only pride if we don't want to be judged.
When people say they don't want to be judged so they don't judge anyone. That is why there is so much apostasy out there.
I had a lot of youth group kids for years. Pastors kids and others. The kids that I saw struggle with their faith or walk away completely were the ones that their parents were secrative about things that were wrong or failings in their church. I believe because they were hidden from the kids. Darkness hates the light. I think we need truth always ..we should love truth .
I know a lot of people who have gotten off and followed wrong teachings and I tell them the truth in love and pray for them. Sometimes we dont speak for years and then when they see the truth our relationships are healed.
My kids and son-in love will call me on things.
jmo

Good post!

[His Bride]

Most of us here believe that we are living in the days right before the return of the Lord. He warned us that there would be a great falling away preceeding His return. This is what we are seeing, in my opinion. Rather than pretend that it doesn't exist doesn't it make sense to bring all of the lies into the light of scripture? There are so many unbelievers out there. I, for one, don't want them confused by a false message. I want them to be saved by the truth. The problem I am seeing in our churches, and here on the board, is that we are sometimes afraid of the truth for fear that somehow it will seem "unchristian." In the meantime, thousands of people are lulled into thinking that they are saved. And when they face the Judge, the Lord Jesus, He tells them to depart from Him. I don't want that responsibility on my shoulders!

[willow]

I guess I don't understand it when you mean that others here are pulling apart everyone else. All they are doing is bringing things into the light of scripture. I, for one, am very grateful. When I thought that I was the only one who opposed Rick Warren's gospel I came here and found that others felt the same way. When I needed to learn about the Shack, I found the information here. I have discerned the compromise of many of my favorite pastors over the years, and I thought that I was alone. But, I wasn't, and the RR board confirmed that the Holy Spirit had moved upon the hearts of others.

I agree that they should be prayed for, but their false gospel must also be uncovered.
I don't think that they should be slammed and condemned, but if their messages are unbiblical then it needs to be brought into the light.

We are never to judge the unbelieving world, nor the condition of a person's heart, however, you show me in scripture where we are not to judge truth from lie. That is called discernment.

Yes, I agree with you. But there are those who are not going to (nor or they able) to pick things apart by the fine point of the law. The message should remain SIMPLE. I believe that is what Dr. Graham attempted to do his entire ministry. By pulling apart, I mean taking each Christian, and pulling their spirits apart nearly to a microscopic level and "diagnosing." It's wrong. Once a person truly accepts Christ, and gets into The Word, God will do the pulling apart and the microscope thing. We've come down to personalities here. to me, I would have NEVER posted the OP. Just too many possibilities for hurt feelings and misunderstandings. But that's me, and you're you. Personally, if I were not as far along in my walk as I am (to some it may seem only an inch) If I were to just read all this condemning stuff, I would turn and walk. Thankfully, I don't listen too much to people. I have the ability to read the Bible for myself. But what about all those who are UNABLE to disect subltle meanings and who's twisting scripture and who's not? That's why I stay out of it and let God judge. I can assure you that when you get to heaven, you will see countless people you thought would NEVER make it there, and vise-versa.

[randy1953]

Yes, I agree with you. But there are those who are not going to (nor or they able) to pick things apart by the fine point of the law. The message should remain SIMPLE. I believe that is what Dr. Graham attempted to do his entire ministry. By pulling apart, I mean taking each Christian, and pulling their spirits apart nearly to a microscopic level and "diagnosing." It's wrong. Once a person truly accepts Christ, and gets into The Word, God will do the pulling apart and the microscope thing. We've come down to personalities here. to me, I would have NEVER posted the OP. Just too many possibilities for hurt feelings and misunderstandings. But that's me, and you're you. Personally, if I were not as far along in my walk as I am (to some it may seem only an inch) If I were to just read all this condemning stuff, I would turn and walk. Thankfully, I don't listen too much to people. I have the ability to read the Bible for myself. But what about all those who are UNABLE to disect subltle meanings and who's twisting scripture and who's not? That's why I stay out of it and let God judge. I can assure you that when you get to heaven, you will see countless people you thought would NEVER make it there, and vise-versa.

AmenAmen

[His Bride]

Yes, I agree with you. But there are those who are not going to (nor or they able) to pick things apart by the fine point of the law. The message should remain SIMPLE. I believe that is what Dr. Graham attempted to do his entire ministry. By pulling apart, I mean taking each Christian, and pulling their spirits apart nearly to a microscopic level and "diagnosing." It's wrong. Once a person truly accepts Christ, and gets into The Word, God will do the pulling apart and the microscope thing. We've come down to personalities here. to me, I would have NEVER posted the OP. Just too many possibilities for hurt feelings and misunderstandings. But that's me, and you're you. Personally, if I were not as far along in my walk as I am (to some it may seem only an inch) If I were to just read all this condemning stuff, I would turn and walk. Thankfully, I don't listen too much to people. I have the ability to read the Bible for myself. But what about all those who are UNABLE to disect subltle meanings and who's twisting scripture and who's not? That's why I stay out of it and let God judge. I can assure you that when you get to heaven, you will see countless people you thought would NEVER make it there, and vise-versa.

In a spirit of love, Willow, I disagree with you. I haven't seen anyone use the fine point of the "law" to bring bad theology out into the open. No one has attempted to pull anyone's spirits apart, only false doctrine. I care about a person's feelings as well, but I would never elevate the feelings of another over the Word of God. I would hope that I would talk about doctrine and not personality or heart quality.

Yes, in heaven I will probably see countless people that I was unsure of, but I think I will also be sadly surprised at who didn't make it!

[willow]

In a spirit of love, Willow, I disagree with you. I haven't seen anyone use the fine point of the "law" to bring bad theology out into the open. No one has attempted to pull anyone's spirits apart, only false doctrine. I care about a person's feelings as well, but I would never elevate the feelings of another over the Word of God. I would hope that I would talk about doctrine and not personality or heart quality.

Yes, in heaven I will probably see countless people that I was unsure of, but I think I will also be sadly surprised at who didn't make it!

I accept that you speak to me in a spirit of love. What you haven't seen, I have. And what I've seen, you haven't. That is why Body of Christ is called just that. (a body.) There are hands, feet, eyes toes, kidneys, heads, and all manner of parts I cannot list without a book of anatomy beside me. I'm banking on seeing Billy Graham there.(but who am I to speculate?) I'm goin' myself because I believe Christ died for my sins. That's all I need. Yes, there IS a terrible amount of apostacy out there. I've never seen it so treacherous. But God gonna handle that too! Some are reached with doctrine/dogma, others are reached with personality and yes, heart quality.

[InHisGrip]

Some are reached with doctrine/dogma, others are reached with personality and yes, heart quality.

I have to say something here. It's the Word of God that saves. NOT personality, heart quality or any other quality that you care to mention. When the Word of God is abused and misused and skewed, it can no longer save.

[Biblenuggetlady]