The Rapture of the Church

[Aussie Micha]

Okay, yes that makes sense

[Shonsu]

I have a question and I apologise if its already been asked. I have trouble with my eyesight and it hurts to read long threads.

In Revelations 5 vs 11 - 13 it says:

11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12 In a loud voice they were saying:

“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”

13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”

What I am wondering is, obviously the raptured church don't become angels so verse 11 isn't us, does that mean verse 13 is us? I don't understand why it says 'every creature in heaven and earth and under the earth and on the sea'..... How does this show the raptured church?

The 24 elders represent us. See what it says about the elders in verses 9 and 10:

And have redeemed us to God by Your blood
Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
And have made us kings and priests to our God;

This can only be the church as evidenced in Revelation 1:5-6 (this is to the seven churches):

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father

The angels in Revelation 5:11 are just that, angels. Nothing more.

Verse 13, I believe, is a picture of God's creation celebrating its coming release from the bondage of sin as Jesus takes the scroll. Anticipation is building!


Romans 8:19-22:

For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

[GulfCoastEdd]

Its really sad what happened to me the last Sunday that just went. I was telling my fellow sister in Christ about the end times and stuff, particularly the Rapture, and she got scared on me and all of a sudden didnt really want to talk. I told her that I was trying to encourage her, not scare her. But she would have none of it. I think she was scared maybe because she hadnt heard this stuff before, or that it was fear of the unknown.

Hopefully you will get the opportunity to talk with her again. If so maybe she will agree with you that Jesus said He has gone to prepare a place for us and He will return for us that we may be where He is also. If so, leave it at that for her to think on for a while.

John 14:2-4
King James Version (KJV)
2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.

[GulfCoastEdd]

BuzzardHut- I wanted to thank you for this thread, and for the OP. I have a friend coming over today who has been feeling very overwhelmed by the things happening in the world today, and she wants to know why I believe as I do about a pre-Trib Rapture. While I know what I believe, and I understand everything written here, I'm not as well versed in all of it yet. I have several main points that I do well explaining, but as for being exhaustive, I'm far from that point. I am printing out your OP, and I am going to hopefully be able to point her to our BLESSED HOPE!

My prayer is that after today, she will not be fearful, but will look each day for the coming of our Lord. Please, friends of RRBB, join me in this prayer! And please pray that I can present the truth to her in a clear/concise manner! (I'm not a great teacher...)

I'll be praying for you brother. I can see that your heart is in a good place!

[GulfCoastEdd]

It went great! She was incredibly encouraged. I took her through some of the Scriptures, and she said they made a lot of sense. I gave her a more complete list of verses, and she's going to seek them out herself still, but that what I told her made a lot of sense, and was plain in the Word. She seemed so much more at peace when she left!

I'm so happy. The last person I tried to explain the pre-Trib position to left with no opinion on it, and I was so discouraged. I am glad that this time, my friend left encouraged and hopeful about our future as the Bride of Christ!

Thank you Jesus!

[GulfCoastEdd]

The reason there may be a short time between being changed and going up is that we have to wait for the dead who are raised first. They have 6 feet farther to travel.

That's Funny!!!

[GulfCoastEdd]

I am scared of heights so I hope it happens in a twinkle

It's funny that you mention this. I work in a refinery and was on top of one of our towers the other day thinking of how I used to have a fear of heights. Looking up into the sky I realized that I still had some of that fear left in me as there was nothing but sky to look at. Then I began to wonder how I will handle the rapture. I concluded that in the change I will probably have all of my fears done away with. At least I hope so.

[Musician in His house]

I used to have dreams about flying now and then, and they were my absolute FAVORITE dreams!!! While I was dreaming, it seemed that I could FEEL the sensation of flight -- of getting a big running start down a hill or off a cliff, of leaping up, and being airborne with the wind under me, and of zipping up and down with the wind current, coming within inches of the ground under my stomach, skimming the surface of the earth or the water, and then suddenly soaring up as high as I could go. I like to think that the Rapture is going to be better than all those flying dreams combined. I can totally "see" us during the Rapture, dipping and soaring in the air for pure delight of finally being with Jesus!!

[LightOfMyLife]

The way I think about the rapture is we hear the sound of a beautiful trumpet, and receive our new glorified bodies. I think of them as full of light like energy. We will then be lifted up in the air faster than the twinkling of an eye & we will be there just as quick. I can hardly wait, and I hope our time is sooooooooooooooooo cloooooooooooooooooooose. I have had some cool dreams, but when we are with Jesus face to face it will be like a dream come true forever!

[Maywood]

Sitting here in front of the computer with tears in my eyes as I read the posts, I just have had dreams too recently and some time ago. About flying into air. One day it will be possible when my Groom comes for me and His whole Body. On my part it takes faith through grace, on His part it cost Him his life. I am humbled at the riches of his mercies, just speechless.
And again, it is Him again who helps me to keep the oil in my lamp, not on my strength! And the crown He will give me, of course will be returned back to Him with such gratitude. YOU, Jesus, is enough. For loving me enough to rescue from what is coming to earth when Satan will be stripped off his dominion over earth and from eternal punishment. My "blessed hope" purifies me..

[Meier]

Ive been having the feeling of excitment in my chest lately...like before you have big game in sports. i really dont know how to explain it but i feel The Rapture is near and i cant wait!

[Buzzardhut]

[Maisie]

I am sure this question I am about to ask will have been addressed somewhere. I would be very grateful if someone would direct me to the answer if you know where I can find it.

I have a friend who believes the rapture will come at the end of the tribulation. He believes that this verse proves that:

2 Thessalonians 2:1–5 (ESV)

1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

I asked him who the elect are who will be gathered in this verse and he says its us, the church. I always thought it was the christians who survive the tribulation:

Matthew 24:31

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

I can honestly say I feel a bit shaken by this viewpoint. I have known about the rapture my whole life and believed it would happen before the tribulation. I haven't really looked at any other position. I don't want to lose my peace over this but i'm anxious and would love to be reassured.

[In Christ]

I am sure this question I am about to ask will have been addressed somewhere. I would be very grateful if someone would direct me to the answer if you know where I can find it.

I have a friend who believes the rapture will come at the end of the tribulation. He believes that this verse proves that:

2 Thessalonians 2:1–5 (ESV)

1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

I asked him who the elect are who will be gathered in this verse and he says its us, the church. I always thought it was the christians who survive the tribulation:

Matthew 24:31

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

I can honestly say I feel a bit shaken by this viewpoint. I have known about the rapture my whole life and believed it would happen before the tribulation. I haven't really looked at any other position. I don't want to lose my peace over this but i'm anxious and would love to be reassured.

Maisie - 2 Th 2:1-2 Were written by Paul to calm the people, apparently the people were under hearing some false information that Christ had already come back (Rapture), and they were living in the Trib. Paul was setting them straight in letting them know that Christ had not returned as of yet, he had already taught the Rapture in 1 Th... In v 3,4 Paul explains the rebellion as it relates to the many people who will fall away from believing in Christ and turn to a belief in the AC. Paul is also stating the Rapture of Christ cannot occur until the man of lawlessness comes (AC), he comes just after the Rapture of the Church when he signs the "Covenant With Many" Dan 9:27 ... Furthermore Paul points out that the AC sets himself up as God, this is right at Mid-Trib...

Others I am sure can add to this, but that was just a quick synopsis off the top of my head. God Bles

[Kliska]

I am sure this question I am about to ask will have been addressed somewhere. I would be very grateful if someone would direct me to the answer if you know where I can find it.

I have a friend who believes the rapture will come at the end of the tribulation. He believes that this verse proves that:

2 Thessalonians 2:1–5 (ESV)

1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

I asked him who the elect are who will be gathered in this verse and he says its us, the church. I always thought it was the christians who survive the tribulation:

Matthew 24:31

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

I can honestly say I feel a bit shaken by this viewpoint. I have known about the rapture my whole life and believed it would happen before the tribulation. I haven't really looked at any other position. I don't want to lose my peace over this but i'm anxious and would love to be reassured.

That snipped has to be seen in context and the ESV isn't a good translation here.

kjv: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth F5 that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

NASB: 2 Thess 2:3 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit has to be taken out of the way before the big bad is revealed; that means us. The rapture removes indwelt believers, then after that, the rest happens.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

I asked him who the elect are who will be gathered in this verse and he says its us, the church. I always thought it was the christians who survive the tribulation:

Matthew 24:31

And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

I can honestly say I feel a bit shaken by this viewpoint. I have known about the rapture my whole life and believed it would happen before the tribulation. I haven't really looked at any other position. I don't want to lose my peace over this but i'm anxious and would love to be reassured.

Matthew 24:31 correlates with Isaiah 11:12... take note of who it is about:

"And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." Is 11:12

You are correct. AFTER the tribulation period, He will "send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet," to gather together the elect of Israel into one place, upon the earth. Also, at that time, "all nations will be gathered before Him," on the earth (for the sheep and goat judgment of the nations, immediately preceding the promised/prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom; Matt 25:32-34).

1 Thess 4:16-17 (the rapture of the Church) differs in the details... it will be "the Lord Himself" who will descend from heaven with a shout... and with the trump of God... and we will be "caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air."

Keep Israel and the Church distinct, in Scripture, and the pre-trib rapture (of the Church) will be easily discerned.

[Maisie]

Thank you very much for posting. I appreciate it a lot. When I was having this conversation with him he kept telling me the verses I was giving him were out of context. It was very confusing.

[Buzzardhut]

Thank you very much for posting. I appreciate it a lot. When I was having this conversation with him he kept telling me the verses I was giving him were out of context. It was very confusing.

We are all about context ; he's confusing.

[Maisie]

Do these verses imply that we might see some of the tribulation?

Luke 21 vs 25-36
25 “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

29 He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

34 “Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

It says 'when these things 'BEGIN' to take place..... does that mean we might see the beginning of the scary stuff but not be here for all of it?

[Kliska]

Do these verses imply that we might see some of the tribulation?

Luke 21 vs 25-36
25 “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

29 He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

34 “Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

It says 'when these things 'BEGIN' to take place..... does that mean we might see the beginning of the scary stuff but not be here for all of it?

The usual way of looking at it is that we can know the season, but not the day. How far into the season is anyone's guess, however we don't ever "dip our toes" into the tribulation itself.