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Thread: The Rapture of the Church

  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hootmon View Post
    Seeing how you only have one post, I assume that your 'slamdunk' missed the basket...
    Howdy Hoot!

    I think it may be too early to tell if his post was just a drive by.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  2. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve53 View Post
    Howdy Hoot!

    I think it may be too early to tell if his post was just a drive by.
    Hope not.
    The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
    Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
    (Psa 19:1b-2)

  3. #463
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    Default Last day - last trumpet

    In the book of John Jesus says that the resurrection will occur on the "last day." (John 6:40,54). And in the book of Daniel, the prophet is told by the angel that he will rise to his inheritance at the "end of the days." (Dan. 12:13). Some versions says "end of the age." This would mean that all OT saints will rise with him.

    What is the last day? The post trib view is that it will be the last day of Daniel's 70th week when Jesus comes and "brings in everlasting righteousness" (Dan. 9:24). Those believing pre trib say the last day is when the church is raptured some time on or before the 70th week begins.

    The dead in Christ are raised first, followed immediately by the transformation of those who are alive and remain (1 Cor. 15:52, 1 Thes. 4:17). It all happens in the "twinkling of an eye." So they essentially happen at the same time. Therefore, if the resurrection of the dead occurs on the "last day," and that day is at the end of the age (70th week), then so must the bodily transformation of the living saints, thus a post tribulation rapture." The Greek for "remain" in 1 Thes. 4:17 (perileipomai) means, "leave over, to remain over, to survive." What would the global church have survived, or be left over from, in a pre trib rapture if it happened today? The sense of "remain" seems to suggest that there will be some in the church who will have endured to the end of the great tribulation when they are saved by the rapture (Matt. 24:13).

    In 1 Cor. 15:52, Paul tells us at the "last trumpet" the dead will be raised imperishable and the living saints will be changed. If the dead in Christ are raised on the "last day," and that is when the "last trumpet" is sounded, then it is clear that the catching up of the dead in Christ and those who are alive happens at the end of the tribulation. For this to be a pre trib rapture, it must be shown that the last day and last trumpet occur on or sometime BEFORE Daniel's 70th week.

  4. #464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slamdunk View Post
    In the book of John Jesus says that the resurrection will occur on the "last day." (John 6:40,54). And in the book of Daniel, the prophet is told by the angel that he will rise to his inheritance at the "end of the days." (Dan. 12:13). Some versions says "end of the age." This would mean that all OT saints will rise with him.

    What is the last day? The post trib view is that it will be the last day of Daniel's 70th week when Jesus comes and "brings in everlasting righteousness" (Dan. 9:24). Those believing pre trib say the last day is when the church is raptured some time on or before the 70th week begins.

    The dead in Christ are raised first, followed immediately by the transformation of those who are alive and remain (1 Cor. 15:52, 1 Thes. 4:17). It all happens in the "twinkling of an eye." So they essentially happen at the same time. Therefore, if the resurrection of the dead occurs on the "last day," and that day is at the end of the age (70th week), then so must the bodily transformation of the living saints, thus a post tribulation rapture." The Greek for "remain" in 1 Thes. 4:17 (perileipomai) means, "leave over, to remain over, to survive." What would the global church have survived, or be left over from, in a pre trib rapture if it happened today? The sense of "remain" seems to suggest that there will be some in the church who will have endured to the end of the great tribulation when they are saved by the rapture (Matt. 24:13).

    In 1 Cor. 15:52, Paul tells us at the "last trumpet" the dead will be raised imperishable and the living saints will be changed. If the dead in Christ are raised on the "last day," and that is when the "last trumpet" is sounded, then it is clear that the catching up of the dead in Christ and those who are alive happens at the end of the tribulation. For this to be a pre trib rapture, it must be shown that the last day and last trumpet occur on or sometime BEFORE Daniel's 70th week.
    SD - Your post has been moved to the thread you originally posted in since the topic is the same.

    You were replied to here http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?7078...71#post2545171 and contained in that post are three links we suggest you follow as the author of the articles explains in detail why you have the "last day" and trumpets confused.

    We also have a prohibition on this forum of proselytizing for anything other that the Pre-Trib rapture viewpoint. It's not because we're close minded, it's simply because it's the only way all the end times pieces fit prophetically.

    And finally, you were asked by a Moderator to please introduce yourself - http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?7078...59#post2545159 so that we may get to know you.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  5. #465

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slamdunk View Post
    In the book of John Jesus says that the resurrection will occur on the "last day." (John 6:40,54). And in the book of Daniel, the prophet is told by the angel that he will rise to his inheritance at the "end of the days." (Dan. 12:13). Some versions says "end of the age." This would mean that all OT saints will rise with him.

    What is the last day? The post trib view is that it will be the last day of Daniel's 70th week when Jesus comes and "brings in everlasting righteousness" (Dan. 9:24). Those believing pre trib say the last day is when the church is raptured some time on or before the 70th week begins.
    As I understand it, in John's gospel it says that He will resurrect [believers] "AT the last day." I, like many here, believe "the first resurrection" pertains to those who are His, and occurs in more than one stage (for instance, the 2 witnesses are resurrected at a different point in time than those who are beheaded during the tribulation period... but both sets of people are resurrected to life [eternal]--the first resurrection). I believe "AT the last day" may refer to a period of time greater than a 24-hr period, but even if not, it seems to refer to the same time frame that Daniel (OT saint) was told of... "at the end of the days [the days referred to in Daniel 12, which (chapter) is describing the last half of the trib... so at the END of those]"... so, yes, all OT saints will be resurrected THEN (that is, AFTER the trib).

    With regard to the last sentence I bolded from your quote above, I'm not aware of the phrase "the last DAY [singular]" pertaining specifically to "the Church [which is His body]," so no, I don't consider the phrase "the last day" (biblically speaking) to pertain to our rapture (the timing of it)--as though it means "the last day of the trib," or the like.
    Elsewhere, Paul was explaining things pertaining to the Church, which were previously a mystery (hidden until revealed)... but OT saints already knew well of the resurrection "at the last day."

    Our rapture takes place before "the Day of the Lord" (and THAT IS a period of time much greater than a 24-hr period), but that phrase is different in meaning (or connotation) from the phrase "AT the last day" IMO... (examining the context[s] where these are found helps unwind these threads better than what little I am explaining here... )

    This is how I understand it... I'm thankful for others' input, and look forward to what others have to say on the topic. Thanks for your comments and questions, Slamdunk.

  6. #466

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    Alrighty then... since we have no other takers ... I guess I'll go ahead and add some other thoughts I neglected before...

    1) what would you say the meaning or purpose of the phrase "[context: "resurrection"] But every man in his own order" is there for, included in the text (1 Cor 15:23), IF there remains only a singular [future] resurrection (at His Second Coming--this would then include the "2 witnesses," the "beheaded trib saints," "the dead IN Christ," and the "OT saints" all at the same time... so why say "but every man in his own order" if it's a one-time event? Why not just say something like "Jesus [was resurrected] first [firstfruit], then the rest [will be resurrected] at the end when He comes" and leave off all those extra words that would seemingly SERVE NO PURPOSE but to simply take up space?)
    What does that phrase MEAN? Why is it there?


    2) some seem to confuse the phrase "come/cometh as a thief in the night" (speaking of the arrival of "the day of the Lord" [1 Thess 5:2; 2 Pet 3:10] not Jesus' 2nd Coming to the earth) with the phrase "Behold, I come as a thief" (speaking of when Jesus Himself comes AFTER the trib, at His Second Coming to the earth [Rev 16:15-16]). He Himself comes "as a thief" (2nd Coming) but not "in the night" (that phrase is only used in connection with how "the day of the Lord" so cometh [which will take place upon the earth [while "the Church which is His body" (that's us) is experiencing "the day of Christ" (see its associated passages) up there with Him]; i.e. the 7-yr trib on the earth (BEFORE His 2nd Coming to the earth)])


    3) the phrase "but of that day and hour KNOWETH no man" [including Jesus back when He spoke it, but not that He didn't "KNOW" after His resurrection/ascension, and then after that had the Revelation written (Rev 1:1)] ... as I see it, it's not that "no one will EVER know" the timing of His Second Coming to the earth (the context of those types of phrases). Those IN the trib SHOULD know (at least the general time frame of His Second Coming to the earth, once the trib begins, or at least from the mid-point). The phrase isn't saying no one will EVER know, IMHO... (and the context isn't about our rapture as many believe, by the way)


    There's more... but these are just a few more thoughts on the general subject... not sure they contribute to your inquiry at all.

    Hope to hear back from you, Slamdunk. I wouldn't mind if you'd point out where you think I'm wrong.
    Would appreciate that, in fact. Any thoughts on these?


    (I'm wondering though... if we'll ever hear from Slamdunk again. What is it with these boards lately? )

  7. #467
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    Today when I was reading about Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father, I got to looking up verses about that and found an interesting support passage for the pre-trib rapture that was new to me.

    Christ did not always sit at the Father's right hand; this took place following the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension, Mark 16:9. He is there interceding for us (the church), Rom. 8:34. But at the beginning of the tribulation, in Rev. 5:6, He will no longer be doing this, because the church is now in heaven. The church age is over; in the tribulation, He is finally moving to put His enemies under His feet. So we see that the first part of the prophecy of Psalm 110:1 is fulfilled at the ascension, and the second half is fulfilled after the rapture. If the church were still on earth during the tribulation, He would still be needing to act as intercessor, seated at the Father's right hand. But He no longer intercedes for the church once the tribulation begins, because the rapture happens before the tribulation! So I see Rev. 5:6 as support for the rapture being pre-trib.

  8. #468

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan51 View Post
    So I see Rev. 5:6 as support for the rapture being pre-trib.
    I do too!

    Your entire post is very well said! Thanks for posting, Jan51!

  9. #469
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jan51 View Post
    Today when I was reading about Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father, I got to looking up verses about that and found an interesting support passage for the pre-trib rapture that was new to me.

    Christ did not always sit at the Father's right hand; this took place following the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension, Mark 16:9. He is there interceding for us (the church), Rom. 8:34. But at the beginning of the tribulation, in Rev. 5:6, He will no longer be doing this, because the church is now in heaven. The church age is over; in the tribulation, He is finally moving to put His enemies under His feet. So we see that the first part of the prophecy of Psalm 110:1 is fulfilled at the ascension, and the second half is fulfilled after the rapture. If the church were still on earth during the tribulation, He would still be needing to act as intercessor, seated at the Father's right hand. But He no longer intercedes for the church once the tribulation begins, because the rapture happens before the tribulation! So I see Rev. 5:6 as support for the rapture being pre-trib.
    Also the passage used to support midtrib



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
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  10. #470
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    I don't understand why people want to argue about the 'great taking away'. The O.T. is still God's word and the symmetry of His Son is throughout the scriptures. So many examples of the Truth and the wedding supper of our Lord...
    'For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.' PSALM 12:5.

  11. #471
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    Many of us on RR have been watching together for many years while other Saints have joined us fairly recently. It's so comforting to know that as the world spins out-of-control our eyes remain fixed on the One Who has complete control over all things! No matter how crazy things become let's never allow temporary conditions to cause us to live in fear or tarnish our witness.

    Amazing isn't it??!! Soon we'll all be gathered before The Lord's throne to experience the joy of being in His presence forever. A brand new world awaits us just over the horizon .... a pure, holy, clean, sinless world where real love & fellowship abounds. No more depression or health issues to plague us, no more temptations to make us stumble, no more loneliness to cast a shadow over our lives. Best of all ..... we will never feel the sting of death again.

    We're so close!

    Maranatha to all!


    At any time the Father may say "Son, go get Your Bride!" so let us always be ready for the moment we'll suddenly meet each other in the air!

  12. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbT View Post
    Many of us on RR have been watching together for many years while other Saints have joined us fairly recently. It's so comforting to know that as the world spins out-of-control our eyes remain fixed on the One Who has complete control over all things! No matter how crazy things become let's never allow temporary conditions to cause us to live in fear or tarnish our witness.

    Amazing isn't it??!! Soon we'll all be gathered before The Lord's throne to experience the joy of being in His presence forever. A brand new world awaits us just over the horizon .... a pure, holy, clean, sinless world where real love & fellowship abounds. No more depression or health issues to plague us, no more temptations to make us stumble, no more loneliness to cast a shadow over our lives. Best of all ..... we will never feel the sting of death again.

    We're so close!

    Maranatha to all!


    At any time the Father may say "Son, go get Your Bride!" so let us always be ready for the moment we'll suddenly meet each other in the air!

    it Barb! And the crowd says
    The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me.... Living for Jesus - Listening for the Trumpet


  13. #473
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    Excellent Expose my friend. The mistake pre-tribbers make in my opinion, is they put to much stock in single verses like IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation, when the truth is Jesus will come back immediately after the tribulation, with us Saints (Rev. 19) and the Anti-Christ will be revealed (come to power) before the Second Coming of Jesus, but NOT before the Rapture.

    I have a question for you Brother, I know the Thessalonians scriptures say that the Dead in Christ shall rise first, then we which are alive and remain will meet them in the air (in Heaven). Did Jesus shout out victory and call everyone home to Heaven upon his death, thus everyone who dies goes straight to heaven, assuming they are in Christ Jesus and under his blood ? There are two scriptures that make me wonder, Jesus told the thief on the cross, today you will be with me in paradise. And the other scripture is Matthew 27:51-52 where when Jesus was crucified, it says the Saints of old left the grave. Matthew 27:51 At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52 and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life.

    Is the scripture about the Dead in Christ shall rise first, meaning that all the Dead in Christ go to Heaven upon death ? Many people with near death episodes always say they saw their loved ones in Heaven.


    What say you....God bless

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