The Rapture of the Church

[Christina]

hi, hope i'm not far into darkness,and yes there is no scripture to back me up, but i can not help but feel that since there is no time in eternity that at the moment of the rapture,while we meet Jesus in the air, seven years has just passed on earth.

bayport, the rapture happens before the 7 year tribulation. We don't know if the tribulation starts right after the Rapture or if there's a gap but we do know that the tribulation countdown begins the moment the peace treaty with Israel is signed. 7 years after the siging of this treaty, Christ will return and "touch down" as Buzz calls it whereas for the Rapture Christ doesn't actually come to earth we go up to meet him in the clouds. 2 different timeframes...the Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ.

[Rapture Dave]

hi, hope i'm not far into darkness,and yes there is no scripture to back me up, but i can not help but feel that since there is no time in eternity that at the moment of the rapture,while we meet Jesus in the air, seven years has just passed on earth.

That is actually an interesting theory and can be supported by Special Relativity. We know that if you left earth at near the speed of light, and came back, only a few minutes would pass for you but several years would pass on earth (just a fact from relativity). If we went up into the "heavens" (space) in the "twinkling of an eye" (speed of light) we could come right back down to find the tirbulation is already over.

[soulsurv]

Buzzard: Not only am I thrilled with all you have outlined here (you are quite the scholar), I absolutely LOVE the song, "Jesus take us Home" on your website. i can't find ANY info on the son anywhere on the net. Do you know who the band is? Thanks for so much blessed info.

[Buzzardhut]

Buzzard: Not only am I thrilled with all you have outlined here (you are quite the scholar), I absolutely LOVE the song, "Jesus take us Home" on your website. i can't find ANY info on the son anywhere on the net. Do you know who the band is? Thanks for so much blessed info.

Delirious? - The Mission Bell - "Fires Burn"

All around the world the fires burn,
They burn for you, for what is true.
And your bride across the earth is pushing through,
And we’re glorious when we mirror you.

Oh this world’s on fire, for you are our great desire.

Jesus, born to take us home,
And home is where the heart is.
Jesus, come and take us soon.
Your home is where my heart is.

All around the world the fires burn,
To light the way for your return,
We know one day you’ll split the sky in two,
And we will fly to be with you.

[soulsurv]

Is "Delirious" the name of a Christian band? Don't know them. I'll look them up anyway. I would really like to have that tune; it's beautifully orchestrated. thanks

[phyrehart]

I was feeling a bit down today.. Thank you so much for this post.
It made me get off my pity pot and thank the lord for what I do have. His love and grace carried me through some very hard times. I'm looking forward hearing the trumpet and to finally seeing Jesus and knowing we are finally going home.
Amen

[Buzzardhut]

Is "Delirious" the name of a Christian band? Don't know them. I'll look them up anyway. I would really like to have that tune; it's beautifully orchestrated. thanks

yes, that's their name

One of the most popular Christian rock groups in Britain, Delirious? was formed in early 1996 as the worship band at a monthly outreach sponsored by Arun Community Church of Littlehampton, West Sussex. After the issue of two independent worship releases, the group began gigging around the area as well and formed their own Furious? label. Furious? released an EP, a live album, and then the band's 1997 studio debut King of Fools.

Delirious? received a pleasant shock later that year when the single "Deeper" hit the British Top 20, completely unheard of for an openly religious group. The band signed a contract with EMI, and in 1998 released The Cutting Edge, a double-disc compilation of their early worship recordings. Sparrow/Chordant signed the band for American distribution, and released King of Fools again in May 1998. Mezzamorphis, their Virgin label debut, followed in mid-1999. Glo, released on Sparrow Records was issued in fall 2000. Another two CD set of worship songs, Deeper: The D:Finitive Worship Experience, arrived in 2001, followed the next year by yet another double disc, Touch.

http://www.amazon.com/Mission-Bell-D...1933053&sr=8-3

[ATYCLB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkx946f-m50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXATog6WJFo

[Matthew6]

[QUOTE=Buzzardhut;918592]

To Laodiceans:
[Rev 3:16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. [out into
tribulation as in Rev. 2:22]


ok so I always thought that this referred to those who were like playing
both sides of the fence. Like they walk around saying they believe in
God and preaching his word etc. but that ther hearts weren't right with
him nor did they truely know him or truely repent. Am I wrong in this and
somehow totally missed what this was about? or is this about a specific
people like a nation or something just confused me a bit here


Feast of Trumpets (Open Door)

Trumpets is on the first, and Atonement is on the tenth. Excluding the days of the Festivals themselves, there are "seven days of Awe" or tribulation between them...including

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may
be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.



OK so here I just have a quick question does the ten days in rev 2:10 men
10 years as the seven days of Awe translates to years? If so does that
mean that we would have three years of being harshly persecuted before
the rapture in the name of the Lord? I'm sorry this just confused me a lot
as I have always known we would you know suffer persecution in his name
but I didn't know there was any where that had a sort of amount of time
when it would be the worst put it in. Or is this refurring to after the rapture
and somehow is there a three extra years in there some where? I know I
am totally lost on this one I am so sorry for this but could you plse explain?

II Thess 2: The Falling Away / Departure

2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [tribulation] shall not come [be present], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Here I am guessing this is saying the AC will be revealed before the rapture?

2 Thess 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
[the Church at the rapture]
2 Thess 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall
destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Here is why it confused me in the top one it looks like it is saying he will be
revealed and then we will go. but here in the second it looks like he wont
be revealed till after we go.

I Thank you so much for the interpretation it really is appreciated
HUGS May God Bless You!

[TwinklingOfanEye]

^ That always confused me too.

[Buzzardhut]

The "falling away" in 2Thess 2:3 is the word APOSTASY which means a defection from truth. It was used in Acts 21:21 when the Jews accused Paul of defecting from the truth and teaching a false doctrine. 2Thess 2:3 seems to be saying that before the return of Christ that there will be a great defection from the true faith.

[Sundial]

John Courson's teaching on that verse indicates a physical falling away, a physical removal of the Church.

[Steve53]

I used to be confused by what appears to be a contradiction by Paul in 2Thess 2:7-8 until I carefully examined the actual words. In 2Thess 2:1-3 Paul seems to be emphatic that Christ cannot return until after the "falling away"(apostasy)and the appearing of the antichrist. However in 2Thess 2:7-8 Paul says,"that he that now restrains will restrain until he is taken out of the way AND THEN shall the wicked(antichrist)be revealed". This could imply that the restainer is the Holy Spirit(and church)and they would be taken out of the way (raptured) BEFORE the antichrist is revealed. If we carefully examine the words we see that Paul did not contradict himself. 2Thess 2:7 there is he(God) who restrains at present until out of MIDST(humanity) he(antichrist) APPEAR and "then"will be revealed the wicked one(antichrist). The words rendered "taken out of the way" are really the word for "appear", a big difference. Also "the midst" would appear to be the population of humanity since the midst is used in other places in the bible to mean population. So Paul stated that Christ could not return until after the apostasy and the appearing of the antichrist and that the restrainer(God)would restrain until out of the midst of the sea of humanity the antichrist would appear. I believe God is the restrainer because who else but God could hold back the antichrist until the chosen time?

Don't ignore 2Thess2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The Holy Spirit is the restrainer and He must be taken out of the way before the anti-christ is revealed.

[anasazi]

Praying for the Lord's soon return.

[SaintTexas]

BuzzardHut: Thank you for the posting. I had been hoping for some time to come across something like it. It was really, really excellently put together and very thorough.

For myself to become a pre-Trib believer, the most convincing evidence has been understanding Jewish wedding traditions. These references were nicely included in BuzzardHut's posting, scripturally referenced and explained. I had two studies on Jewish wedding tradition also referencing the Lord's words, blocked off with explanation in step by step fashion, book marked (author James C. Lindquist) but they are not working right now. I rechecked his site, and it appears he took them down---too bad because they were excellent. If I can track them down, I will post links. I did not print them out and now wish I had.

[cberger]

wow, great information.. my vacation is coming around the corner, sometimes I wonder if we will be gone before then..

[sirgak]

Great post, thanks!!

One minor nit-pick though,

I cannot find even one translation that seems to indicate that "falling away" has anything to do with the rapture at all, they all translate this as a rebellion against God, or apostasy.

I just checked with my concordance and here is the greek

People try to use the 2 Thes 2 verses to prove a post-Trib Rapture. It's (to the post-tribbers) a "proof text." Never mind the fact that there is so much evidence elsewhere that the Rapture is Pre-Trib. And, to tell the truth, I've wrestled with it a bit. It DOES seem to indicate a Rapture (ie IF "Day of Christ" = Rapture) after Antichrist appears. But, I have some research to share on it that may help illuminate it.

Before I launch into it, it's good to keep in mind a general principle of Bible interpretation: if numerous passages are clear, and one passage is unclear, prefer the clear passages over the unclear one.

Part of the problem is that there are odd (in the sense of being unclear) terms being used in this passage. One is "apostasy" (also translated "falling away.") I have always heard that being interpreted as "departure from the faith." Strong’s supports this:

Strong's Ref. # 646
Romanized apostasia
Pronounced ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
feminine of the same as GSN0647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ["apostasy"]:
KJV--falling away, forsake.

But, with all respect for Strong’s, that translation is not as clear as it could be. The word, apostasia comes from two Greek words, and here it is that literal rendering:

From Greek απο, apo, "away, apart", στασις, stasis, "standing".
Source: http://www.answers.com/topic/apostasia

Apostasia simply means “standing away” or “standing apart.”. But, apart from “what”? The implied “from truth” interpretation given by Strong’s is not actually carried in the meaning of the word itself. The “from what” would have to be established in the context of the passage in which it is used.

Think of it this way. Suppose I say, “I have a dozen.” You would say, a dozen “what”? The “what” would be understood in the context of what I am talking about, whether it’s lumber, eggs, complaints, children, etc.

Another odd term is the expression “Day of Christ.” In the context of 2 Thessalonians, is this the Rapture? Back up one chapter to 2 Thessalonians 1:

2 Thess 1: 6. since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7. and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8. in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10. when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

This is clearly the Tribulation period followed by the Second Coming. Thus, the usage of the term “Day of Christ”, in context of 2 Thessalonians, is talking about the Trib and Second Coming. This, of course, is the crux of the difference between Pre-Trib and Post-Trib positions: is the Rapture Pre-Trib, or Post-Trib?

Let’s look again at the Greek word apostasia being translated “the falling away”. Some Bible prophecy teachers have definitely come down on the side of "departure from the faith." But, in the context of the passage itself, does that make sense? There has always been apostasy in that sense. Why is this particular usage called “the” apostasy (where “the” is the Greek definite article "ho", Strong’s 3588)? Why is this usage specific, rather than general? If “the” apostasy is marked out as one of two major signs signifying what must precede the Day of Christ (ie the Rapture, as suggested by the post-tribbers), why is this sign found nowhere else in Bible prophecy? Let me rephrase that: this passage gives two and only two signs preceding The Day of Christ: apostasy and the revealing of the antichrist, and while there is extensive information about the antichrist elsewhere in the Bible, there is no other correlation in the context of the Second Coming about departing from the faith. It seems to me that this apostasia is VERY critical, and apparently very clear as to being a sign that the Second Coming is near. Paul made a point of this as something he very clearly and plainly taught:

2 Thess 2: 5. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

While some have pooh-poohed the following interpretation, some Bible prophecy teachers have offered an alternate meaning, namely, that this Greek word apostasia, which literally means “away standing”, or departure, is describing Christians departing, not from the faith, but from the world. In other words, the Rapture.

Now, we have a harmony. Let’s insert these terms into the original verse, and see if it makes sense:

2 Thess 2: 3. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that (Second Coming) will not come unless the (Rapture) comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition

Things fall into place with the above interpretation. People were thinking they were in the Tribulation and were distressed. Even more scary, is that they thought they had missed the Rapture, of which Paul wrote to them in 1 Thessalonians. Paul assures them that the Tribulation period preceding the Second Coming won’t come, until first there is:

a) The Rapture
and
b) The Antichrist is revealed.

By this, Paul is reassuring them they haven’t missed the Rapture and haven’t entered into the events of the Tribulation period.
NOW, apostasia being one of two major signs, makes sense. NOBODY will miss seeing the Rapture, when hundreds of millions are missing. ALL will know about the antichrist.

Rev 13: 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

[Dantheman688]

Newb question here lol.. When it says twinkling of an eye does that mean after the trumpet and dead are raised, or does that mean the whole rapture at once will be that quick? Like one second were here and then another were in Heaven? Or will we know the rapture is happening and then it will be a split second?

[Jacinth]

^The whole rapture, twinkling of an eye. So fast, the people left behind will not see us go.

We may have a slight feeling right before it happens. The sound of Him calling his sheep.

[LightOfMyLife]

^The whole rapture, twinkling of an eye. So fast, the people left behind will not see us go.

We may have a slight feeling right before it happens. The sound of Him calling his sheep.

The dead in Christ get to go first because they have been waiting the longest is my guess. Then we which are alive will go. Blink your eye and it is that fast if not faster. We will be there before you know it. I think about the rapture everyday. Can't wait to leave here and be in my eternal home. What a peaceful & loving place that will be. It will be wonderful to see Jesus face to face, see my loved ones again & meet all the people we have read about in The Bible. Keep watching, praying & be ready to go up.