http://www.9news.com/news/article.as...7449&catid=339
Wilderness?
Is it me, or just by what I read and see by action that this man is into himself?
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Ted Haggard: I'm back from the 'wilderness'
http://www.9news.com/news/article.as...7449&catid=339
Wilderness?
Is it me, or just by what I read and see by action that this man is into himself?
I'm old fashioned, I guess. Seems to me that he was caught in a "sin." That's a word that many are afraid to use today. I personally do not think he should be allowed a position of church leadership in the future.
If anything for his hypocrisy. Saying homosexuality is a sin while he is doing it himself. Check out this clip from "Jesus Camp" shot two months before he got caught.Originally Posted by His Bride
Regular Member
Who cares He had his chance and time to work for the Lord he needs to just stay in wilderness, He gave CHristianity a bad name. He should just stay silent and live his life out with his family if they so chose to let him remain in their lives. He destroyed all credability. Maybe he can hold a pastor accountability class for sexual perversion or run a church for pediafiles there's him a ministry.
He is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth. (2 Samuel 23:4)
Member
An example of forgiving others as Christ has forgiven us? Eph. 4:32Who cares He had his chance and time to work for the Lord he needs to just stay in wilderness, He gave CHristianity a bad name. He should just stay silent and live his life out with his family if they so chose to let him remain in their lives. He destroyed all credability. Maybe he can hold a pastor accountability class for sexual perversion or run a church for pediafiles there's him a ministry.
Good thing my (and probably most of us) sins are for the most part hidden from others, especially the media. Yes, those in leadership should be held to a higher standard but to continue to hold a grudge against them isn't keeping the bonds of unity.
fwiw,
don
Regular Member
................he can sell insurance or market his debt-reduction material all he wants.........but he needs to fade into the distance when it comes to ANY kind of church leadership............he day is over and the night is far spent..........if he is repentent so be it........I am in dis-favor of anyone coming back from the sin they were caught in and trying to make a "come back" in tv or any other high profile ministry ....
Regular Member
I agree thanks for the reality check. By I realy do mean he should be held accountable and maybe teach a class to men with his pastorial background most sex offenders are not allowed in churches no more by law it would be nice if he could help others and his degree not be in vain. Maybe a community service project.
He is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth. (2 Samuel 23:4)
Regular Member
I guess I have a difficult time understanding how "sexuality can be confusing"
"Jesus Camp" was a scary movie. I'm glad it got shut down. To brainwash little kids like that, and make them feel like dirt for the little sins they have managed to do in their short life spans, is not right.
Member
There is forgivness if repentant. But to be put in a position of leadership is totaly wrong. He should not even seek a leadership position. Any perversion should keep a person out of leadership. And homosexuallity is just that, a perversion.
There are many other ways to serve The Lord without desiring the spot light of leadership. And it has nothing to do with anyone being unforgiving. Would you put a child molester back in a position of child care even if he repented, even if was a genuine repentance. The person can serve in a different area.
I don't believe a divorced person should hold a pastorial position... mean.. no. I am not judging just taking the Word of God for the truth. "The husband of one wife". Why can't a person be content with a lesser position. Just my opinion.
Okay I am ready to be attacked.
No attack here.I agree with everything you said. Forgiveness is one thing. A position of leadership is quite another.
Hi iGospel 5
Bye iGospel 5
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What! Oh no no no. The sin in the world comes from the fallen state we are in because of the fall of man. That goes for the animal kingdom too. It is in a fallen state so it is NOT natural for animals to be mating with the same sex.
And I thought I was gona get it from the divorce statement I made.
I am sorry but do not agree with you at all. Sorry, No offence.
I do believe you can have that tendency and not act on it but I do believe it is a perversion of what The Lord intended us to be.
Regular Member
Homosexuality is not a perversion. It is a fact of life. Could you imagine someone actually choosing to be homosexual? Choosing all the ostracization that comes with it? People don't choose to be homosexual. It is not a conscious choice. I think we should understand this.
Homosexuality itself cannot be a sin, because it is innate. You see it in the animal world too. If someone has no conscious control over it, then it cannot be a sin. Rather I like to think of it as a thorn in the side, similar to Paul's, a challenge to someone's faith. Homosexuals are called to be celibate, but they don't have to deny their sexual identity. That just causes more pain, both psychological and social. I actually feel sorry for Haggard because he is going through a lot of pain right now. But I don't feel too sorry for him because of all those nasty things he said about homosexuals while he was engaging in homosexual acts himself. Mike Jones, Haggard's partner, did the right thing when he outed Haggard.
So then.......
If that were the case.....why are we not living in Eden?
Did when Eve bite into the apple and then give it to Adam and he bit into it, was that not a "conscious choice"?
Why did they then go run off and hide from God then?
They knew they did wrong......and tried to hide and cover it up......
They didnt have to listen to the serpent, but they did.....
In sex, we do make a desicion. We do make a choice......and a lot of the times we make bad choices.......and we pay for it in the end......
Member
The Bible is our plumb line. We must measure Everything with The Word. If you read and study the Word your opinion usually come in line with the Word of God. No excuses. Sin is sin. That is nothing to worry about if we know we have a Savior whom we can go to with repentance.
The Bible never says what Paul's thorn was. We should not speculate. That is how we get in trouble.
Of all "producers" to make his "film", he picks anti-God Alexandra Pelosi who mocks Christianity. Then, he goes on Oprah, offers to give his testimony to groups for $ (after all he needs to make a living)... I am for forgiveness, but the fruit still smells rotten.
The nature of Haggard's return - and his harsh words in the film for his former church-- is drawing criticism. Haggard is also is to tape an "Oprah Winfrey Show" appearance next week for an episode scheduled to air this month, a spokesman for the show confirmed Friday.
"If you're going to come out and begin a new life, why would you choose an HBO documentary, then meet with the liberal Hollywood press?" said H.B. London, a former counselor to Haggard and an executive at Focus on the Family in Colorado Springs. "The fact that he's attacking the church or New Life Church, when they did so much to help him and his family, is below the belt."
Haggard lashes out at "the church" in the documentary, which was produced by Alexandra Pelosi, daughter of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. He said "the church has said go to hell" and "the church chose not to forgive me."
Over a 14-month period ending Dec. 31, 2007, New Life Church paid the Haggard family $309,020 in salary and benefits, according to a church document obtained by The Associated Press.
The payout included $152,360 in salary for Ted Haggard, $62,177 in salary for his wife, Gayle, $26,426 for counseling, $11,168 for legal fees and $26,000 to help care for the couple's special-needs son, who is in his early 20s.
Haggard on Friday said his family is grateful for the severance, but he was angry for being forced to leave Colorado Springs as one condition. He also challenged the church's statement that he halted a process meant to restore him, saying he still receives counseling.
The church has since released Haggard from all restrictions, including a prohibition on speaking publicly, and both Haggard and church leadership say relations are positive.
Haggard's successor at New Life, Brady Boyd, wrote in a blog post Friday that "the motives behind every decision" involving the Haggards were pure, and the church was generous in its severance and support. He would not respond to Haggard's specific complaints.
In the AP interview, Haggard credited his therapists, whom he described as Christian believers who used secular therapy methods.
"I just thought a spiritual solution would be the solution to everything that's internal," Haggard said. "That turned out not to be the case."
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Won't it be interesing to see how many Christians fall for this deception and fight to see him back in leadership place. I have seen a lot of the restoration hype in my time and it always ended badly.
Christian therapists???????????? That is like the mormons saying Jesus and satan were brothers.
Washed in His Blood
I saw Haggard on Oprah yesterday....I no longer watch Oprah, but when I saw Haggard I had to see what he was saying. I was very saddened that he really did not seem repentant at all. He seemed to basically say that he can not define what he is...either heterosexual or homosexual. He said he was wrong for some of the things he said regarding homosexuality (I guessed he meant that it was an abomination to God and all). He never called it a sin and never said that he was repentant for what he did. I thought he did a disservice to christians. I would have had more respect for him if he said "I sinned and I repented. I will no longer engage in this sin." He should have said it was right for him to step down and that he would no longer play a role in leadership.
It was wishy washy and Oprah was just lovin it. She wanted so bad for Haggard to say that homosexuals were normal and God accepted their lifestyle. I think Haggard basically gave her what she wanted.
Ugh!
I was wondering when this topic would come up. I happened to see what her show had listed as the guest and had to watch. (Normally I don't even check.) I was very saddened by what appeared to be him accepting this part of his life and not really defining it as sin either. He talked about choices, but not about repentance. His wife was the one I was sorry for, especially when Oprah disagreed with her about what makes our identity. She almost seemed to be saying that Ted's offense was okay, since it was part of his identity, and that he needed to accept it. No one came right out and said that Ted sinned, needed forgiveness, didn't have to act on his temptations, etc. It may have been implied, but the goddess of the airwaves would have put it down or stopped it from being said.
All in all I found it tragic, but it serves to teach us that we must never, ever, put man on the pedestal. It the the place reserved for our Lord only. If his mega church had held him accountable to God's standards perhaps all of the pain that his sin caused could have been avoided.
Did anyone see Alexandra Pelosi(Nancy's daughter, that is) on Anderson Cooper the other night? She pretty much criticized the Christian community Haggard was associated with b/c of the way they distanced themselves from him after the scandal, they didn't show forgiveness et al like G-d wanted them to, and how they weren't acting in a Christian-like manner.
Anderson pretty much kept interrupting her(and kinda rudely) when she was explaining this, and to be frank, I didn't blame him for doing so either.
If anything, I feel most sorry for his kids, not only having to go through this ordeal(and prolly being teased alot by their peers for it), but also having to move around so much over the last 2 years while their father was trying to find a job.
Pelosi's daughter did another film on him, and just from the clips of it, it was nothing but a sympathetic portait of him.
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