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Thread: John Piper on the Prosperity Gospel *Merged*

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by giest075 View Post
    So what's the deal with Richard Foster and Kenneth Boa? I'll check out the books by them and compare scripture and then see what I can present to my friends. I don't think the article is going to be convincing to them so i'll research this personally so they cant throw the bias arguement out at me because I quoted from the source. I'm also going to research Matt Chandler and listen to a couple of his sermons to see if anything is wrong. I'm really just trying to be objective and not be swayed by other's research when I didnt personally research to see if it was true.
    Lighthouse has volumes on foster.

    http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch....hardfoster.htm
    http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch....cleprinter.htm

  2. #122
    candlelight Guest

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    What is so disappointing is almost every Pastor I know has some John Piper books, and many are not even aware of this. I am finding out also, just because someone is a Pastor does not mean they have discernment either. It was my former Pastor that gave me the "Ragamuffin Gospel" by Brennon Manning to read. Sheesh!!!

  3. #123
    JoelH Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by candlelight View Post
    What is so disappointing is almost every Pastor I know has some John Piper books, and many are not even aware of this. I am finding out also, just because someone is a Pastor does not mean they have discernment either. It was my former Pastor that gave me the "Ragamuffin Gospel" by Brennon Manning to read. Sheesh!!!
    Funny that you mentioned Piper just as I came back from Sunday service here. The pastor, who is no way emerging (in fact, his wife speaks very sternly against that movement), quoted and asked everyone to memorize specifically this quote verbatim from Piper, "God is most glorified if we are most satisfied in Him". (Taken from Piper's "Desiring God")

    I believe the theology lurking behind this quote is problematic, but I need a very detailed Scriptural study to analyse it before posting a Bible-based rebuttal here.

  4. #124
    candlelight Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoelH View Post
    Funny that you mentioned Piper just as I came back from Sunday service here. The pastor, who is no way emerging (in fact, his wife speaks very sternly against that movement), quoted and asked everyone to memorize specifically this quote verbatim from Piper, "God is most glorified if we are most satisfied in Him". (Taken from Piper's "Desiring God")

    I believe the theology lurking behind this quote is problematic, but I need a very detailed Scriptural study to analyse it before posting a Bible-based rebuttal here.
    It is just so disheartening Joel and some of this stuff is so obscure they way they word things. Sounds good on the outside, but the inner meaning is something else. Lord, please give us discernment!

  5. #125
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    ............I am instantly "on alert" when any pastor says these words...."everybody repeat after me.....blah,blah blah blah blah blah blah......."..........unless those words are direct Bible quotes..............in context...............

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by candlelight View Post
    Sounds good on the outside, but the inner meaning is something else. Lord, please give us discernment!

    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

  7. #127
    petras Guest

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    joel im not sure where you got that quote but it wasnt worded right so i went to the web site and found the right one.



    What Is Christian Hedonism?

    My shortest summary of Christian Hedonism is: God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him.

    We all make a god out of what we take the most pleasure in. Christian Hedonists want to make God their God by seeking after the greatest pleasure—pleasure in him.
    Last edited by petras; May 4th, 2009 at 01:30 PM. Reason: so i could bold the statement. and just the statement

  8. #128
    petras Guest

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    also the Biblical support for the statement is from the book of Isaiah. just thought i would let you know.

  9. #129
    JoelH Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by petras View Post
    also the Biblical support for the statement is from the book of Isaiah. just thought i would let you know.
    I would be interested to know the exact verse. At the moment I'm skeptical as to how a quote can be read in this manner and I lean on the side that this interpretation is wrong. <><

  10. #130
    hurryupJesus Guest

    Question John Piper

    ok tell me if I"m getting this or if I'm way off base!

    I looked up John Piper online, and went to his actual website. I started reading his 5 points of calvanism as what he believes.
    At first I was like what??? I don't get what is wrong. But here is my guess:
    Is it that he believes Jesus death on the cross was not for all men, but for only whom God chooses?
    That really confused me! Because didn't Jesus die for all, but only the people that accept that gift go to heaven?
    And John Piper says the verse that talks about His death being for the whole world is really meaning the church. the whole world means only God's chosen scattered around the world
    Am I getting this right?
    Boy you really have to do some digging into these teachers to find the real beliefs, and there was so much mumbo jumbo on this belief that it thoroughly confused me!!

  11. #131
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    You need to understand Calvinism:


    Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
    Unconditional Election
    Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
    Irresistible Grace
    Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

    The one you are having issue with is the second and third statements of Calvinism.

    Personally, I will never put limits on God (ie: limited atonement) but the rest you have to pray about yourself.

    John Piper is not allowed to be quoted on this forum:

    I was about to post a link, but it seems to have disappeared . . as it was a post by Sing4Him . . . wonder who is being added to the list . . . .
    The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.



    He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh:


    Psalms 2:2-4a

  12. #132
    hurryupJesus Guest

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    oops I seem to be saying everything I"m not supposed to say.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurryupjesus View Post
    oops I seem to be saying everything I"m not supposed to say.
    You're only asking questions! I went thru your other posts to see what you meant by that and I see nothing wrong. You're anxious to learn more about God and that is why this board exists.

    It is indeed a good thing you're interested in 'testing the spirits.'

    Cheer up.
    I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
    For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor;
    no good thing does He withhold from those whose walk is blameless.

    Psalm 84:10-11

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiafromBergen View Post
    You need to understand Calvinism:


    Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
    My problem with this, is this verse:

    1 Timothy 4:10 (King James Version)
    10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.



    Paul wrote that Jesus "is the savior of all men." This, to me, rules out limited atonement. Atonement was made for everybody, but not everybody is saved. Payment for sin was made at the cross for everybody, but it only gets credited to the one who places his faith in Jesus Christ. Another passage that says this is here:

    1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
    2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


    Jesus made propitiation "for the sins of the whole world," but it only applies to those who place their faith in Jesus.

    Still another passage:

    Romans 5:17-18
    17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.


    Again, the free gift is available to all men, but (as vs 17 shows), it applies to "they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness", and we already know that gift is received by faith in Jesus Christ.

    Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

    So, I just don't buy limited atonement.

  15. #135
    Chuck Taylorz Guest

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    To the Mods in this Thread how do you guys know so much????

  16. #136
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    Where can you get this documentary? Has it been released yet?

    Thanks for posting!

  17. #137
    Christ4ever777 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by imfree View Post
    Where can you get this documentary? Has it been released yet?

    Thanks for posting!
    I dont know to be honest. I tried going to the website http://www.sufferthechildren.com and some web page with an ad came up. I guess the domain is no longer up?

  18. #138
    rrrrrpitch Guest

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    drinkking
    man followers

  19. #139
    SummerSailing81 Guest

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    There was an article in the Atlanta Constitution Journal several years ago and it dealt with Creflo Dollar and the prosperity gospel. They interviewed the pastor of another, small church in the area and he made a statement I'll never forget. He wouldn't judge Dollar's heart as to whether he was a Christian or not, but he did say that when he personally passed Dollar's church he noticed that all the luxury vehicles were parked in the slots marked for the ministry people and the rest of the parking lot was mostly filled with older moderately priced vehicles. It seems, to me, the only people getting rich on the prosperity gospel are the preachers, their families, and their friends. Unfortunately, I know from personal experience that the "partners" of these ministries are only getting poorer, not richer.

  20. #140
    candlelight Guest

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    Was having a friendly discussion at work and of course someone mentioned Creflo Dollar. It was a nice and civil discussion, but what is a good reply to people who say "But God wants us to prosper to help other's"? My reply was that of course he does but if they are not preaching sin, confession of sin, repentance and salvation through the Blood of Jesus Christ it does no good. If anyone can add to this I would be grateful. Thank you. I feel blessed that I work at a place that I can discuss these things, but the scripture "My people perish from lack of knowledge" is really hitting home right now. Thank you.

    Mod's please move this to Apostasy. I have been up since 4:30 am. Sorry I messed up.

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