No 'time' for eternity?

[Kant]

I've come across the viewpoint before that time doesn't exist in heaven or that after this life we enter into eternity and that means the absence of time. I'm curious as to where this idea originates from or what scriptures support it. I believe we will still live in "time" even in the afterlife for at least one main reason:

After Jesus rose from the dead with his glorified body, he still operated, lived, and interacted with people in "time." If we are to receive bodies like Christ's, why would our interaction with "time" be any different?

For what it's worth, I am of the persuasion that time also exists in heaven and that God himself is the only one that is and ever will be outside of time. Since heaven is a place, I believe it was created by God and therefore subject to the constraints of time and space. Due to the weight of the subject, I will avoid the technicalities and the implications of God being in human flesh and what that might mean for the eternality of Jesus (I believe Jesus is still eternal).

[Caveman]

2 Timothy 1:9
This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time

God's grace eternally existed for us literally "before time existed." (That's why the NIV translates the verse by saying that God's grace was given to us "before time began.")

A study of the Greek phrase "pro chronon aionion," translated "before the beginning of time," shows the independent existence of God's grace in Christ outside of our time domain.

[-wrEk-]

Interesting...

Paul spoke of Heaven in terms of "the coming ages" (Ephesians 2:7)

God's people in Heaven "serve him day and night in his temple" (Revelation 7:15)

The tree of life on the New Earth will be "yielding its fruit every month" (Revelation 22:2)

We're told that "there was silence in heaven for about half an hour" (Revelation 8:1)

[1angel4u]

Originally Posted by Kant

I've come across the viewpoint before that time doesn't exist in heaven or that after this life we enter into eternity and that means the absence of time.

We do not enter into eternity after the rapture/trib/2nd Coming of Christ.

We enter into the Millennial Kingdom (MK). Christ's 1,000 year reign here on earth.

Doesn't time have to exist, if the Millennial Kingdom lasts a milleniallum?

After the MK, when satan is cast into the lake of fire forever, eternity begins. There is no time frame given in the Word, for eternity. Perhaps this is what you were thinking of?

[Teotwawki]

Originally Posted by -wrEk-

Interesting...

Paul spoke of Heaven in terms of "the coming ages" (Ephesians 2:7)

God's people in Heaven "serve him day and night in his temple" (Revelation 7:15)

The tree of life on the New Earth will be "yielding its fruit every month" (Revelation 22:2)

We're told that "there was silence in heaven for about half an hour" (Revelation 8:1)

[Lucid]

Wow. I had always thought that there was an absence of time in heaven. And just came to find out that "and time shall be no more" isn't in the Bible, but from a hymn.

Thank you for bringing this subject up. We learn something new everyday!

As for "night", what about:

Revelation 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

I guess it could still indicate "time" just no division between night & day since there's no night and God provides a different kind of "light"?

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. Genesis 1:5

And then...

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

....gives us even more insight to the timeless perfection of God's promises and the absolute, absolute, absolute (did I emphasize that enough? ) security of the believer.

. You just provided my Bible study today before 5:30.

[TimothyK]

I always thought it safe to assume the time references and times given for certain events were purely for the benefit of the human reader, not God. I believe in a timeless eternity because God Himself is timeless and eternal. Bible tells us this. A timed eternity doesn't make sense when eternity is defined as timeless. Even if you compromise and say eternity is infinite time, time is measurable and therefore not eternal. Looking from the outside in you can give a time for folks inside time, but if you are outside of time there is no time. Savvy?

Jesus Christ is God and a man like mankind. The laws of anything in His creation do not apply to Him. God can do the impossible. Square-circles galore. He can do anything and since Jesus Christ is God and He and The Father are one, there is nothing He cannot do. Any restrictions He has are only those He has chosen to impose on Himself. And like any self-imposed rule, He could also break it if He wanted too. Our God does not lie or break His promises. Can He? Sure. Anytime He wants. Will he? Never. Why not? Because He said He wouldn't. To save us, Jesus Christ stepped out of eternity and into His creation as a flesh and blood man. After He finished His work, He stepped right back into eternity. This did not change God's power or dominion. This did not make Him any less eternal or any less God. The only thing that changed is the second of the Trinity God Head, God's Son Jesus Christ, will always be the Jesus Christ that redeemed mankind. He can be nothing else because He has chosen to be Jesus Christ. He'll have a new wonderful name someday that the redeemed will know Him by, but as far as who He is, He will always be the One we have known as Jesus Christ. He will always be the redeemer of mankind and by whom we have gained our salvation. This will never change not because it can't, because God can do anything, but because God won't. We are assured this forever, eternally. It is a self-imposed restriction that God has chosen to do forever.

Jesus Christ is forever. He is both a man and God. Case closed. We can debate about infinity and time till' our ears bleed and we get reduced to ya'huh and nuh'uh, but Jesus Christ's claim to be God (which is what you truly question when you question if Jesus Christ can really be eternal) is an open and closed case. God answers this in the Bible. He and the Father are one. He is God and He is outside of time; eternal. Which is timeless by definition. I never thought of it as a hard concept. I really don't care how people want to define forever in terms of time. I don't believe time will exist. So if it's a discussion and we can't even agree on the existence of the subject in question, at a place and point we'll never see until we are with our Lord and God Jesus Christ who will answer such questions with wisdom only our all-knowing God has and silences both parties, or else says one to be right and another wrong... a seemingly endless back and forth can occur, unless I chose not to continue. Creating yet another vicious cycle.

Forever is forever is forever. Think on it too much and your head might explode. We were given the ability to contemplate eternity and yet we can never realize it in the flesh. Maybe it's an artifact from our would be pre-fallen state? More likely it's there to make us realize there's more to existence then this short life and to point us to God.

If you'll excuse me, I'm going to go explode now.

[Lucid]

I love this guy.

[Lampholder]

Bravo He is great!

[JesusIsLord]

Something to think about:

I have not done an in-depth study on this, but from what I have read and heard, scientists have scientifically theorized that there are at least 10 different dimensions in which we have no physical sense to see or feel: It's called string-theory. We have 5 senses: Taste, Feel, Smell, Sight and Sound. These senses allow us to understand and perceive the three-dimensional universe in which we live. But we also are in the midst of a 4th dimension at work in which we can partially sense: Time. It is completely separate from the spatial dimensions. We cannot feel it and we are limited to it's future, and can only sense the present and remember the past. We cannot alter it.

Now, we Christians also believe in a spiritual dimension: One in which we also cannot see. If you dont believe this, then you cannot be a Christian, for you could not believe that the Holy Spirit can exist, nor that He could live inside you....sealing you for the day of redemption, or that you even have a soul! Nevertheless, the doctrine of the Trinity is one of the essential Doctrines of the Christian faith. So, if we believe that there is a spiritual dimension in which we cannot see, why is it so hard for people to believe that Heaven, which also exists in a dimension in which we cannot see, can be outside the time dimension? With God, all things are possible. And we know that when He comes for us, that we will be changed and be like Him. And what was He like? He could walk through walls, disappear at will, float up to heaven in a cloud, appear to many different people in different places at the same time......

My position is that we will absolutely be able to overcome the time dimension. Eternity cannot be based on time, because if eternity meant that time just kept going, we would never be able to approach "eternity". Therefore, eternity lies in the absence of time. Any expression or description of heaven related to times or seasons, day or night, only serves to draw a picture that it will never be that the Tree of Life doesnt bear fruit, nor that the Shakinah Glory of God refuses to shine and give light to the new heavens and new earth. For lack of better expression, it's "24/7", "for all time", never ceasing, absolute PERFECTION. I cannot adequately describe this because I am in a time-based dimension. But that's the best I got


1 Corinthians 2:9

No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him

[Amber Lynne]

Chuck Missler is great.

[tres amigos]

I've heard Missler's teachings on time. He reminds us that time is proven to be a physical property. God lives outside of time. Although the millenial kingdom will be "in time' the rest of eternity is not placed in time.

[Brinkley]

Time does not exist. We live on a continuim and events play out as we progress. We do not age and die as a result of time, but rather from a hostile environment of excessive short wave energy, depleted oxygen levels and other environmental factors. Time is an illusion according to Einstein, and I think he might have been on to something.

So think of eternity not as an absence of time, but rather an existence in a perfect setting that is absent of all the hostile elements that cause danger and death.

[Tres Wright]

Originally Posted by Kant

I've come across the viewpoint before that time doesn't exist in heaven or that after this life we enter into eternity and that means the absence of time. I'm curious as to where this idea originates from or what scriptures support it.

That view probably comes from a misunderstanding. God exists outside of time, but that doesn't apply to us, departed saints, angels, demons, or Heaven. Only God.

Originally Posted by Kant

enter into eternity and that means the absence of time.

Eternity means "forever", it doesn't imply an absence of time. The Eternal Kingdom will last forever, but time will no doubt be observed. Perhaps not like it is now (through the movement of the sun), but it will likely be measured in some way.

Originally Posted by Kant

For what it's worth, I am of the persuasion that time also exists in heaven and that God himself is the only one that is and ever will be outside of time. Since heaven is a place, I believe it was created by God and therefore subject to the constraints of time and space.

[ronbo477]

God the father and our Lord live in a time diminsion that is different than ours. This is shown in two bible verses where it says a day on earth is equal to a thousand years. After the last rebellion we go into eternity which implies the end of time as a measurement. Thats is my opinion based on what the scriptures says. Looking forward to understanding the greatness of what this blessing means in its fullness.

[kgreen20]

How are we going to put billions of candles on our birthday cakes, I wonder?

[truthseeker815]

Originally Posted by kgreen20

How are we going to put billions of candles on our birthday cakes, I wonder?

wow that would be a big birthday cake!

[Rinji]

My conclusion came from my limited knowledge of physics and time.

If God knows what you can do in the future and know what's in your heart at the present. He's in two places at once. At least according to us in the human condition, those of us who experience time in a linear fashion.
It's already explained that God doesn't experience time in the same manner as we do.

The only solution I can think of is that God instead doesn't go through the "video tape" of time one frame at a time. But actually sees all the "frames" of it simultaneously. If you are capable of that, then you can know everything, past present and future.

If this is true, then a more interesting question is,"Does Satan or the fallen angels experience time linearly like we do?"
I'm guessing 'yes' because Satan would have known about the secret that God kept secret until Christ died on the cross. Otherwise Jesus' blood would have never been shed.

Another thought is, maybe when man had first sinned, it could have altered the way the world experienced time as well. When things get back in order, and sin ceases to exist, then would linear time end.

[missbella]

After the old earth and heaven pass away we get to live with GOD on the new earth. I would imagine that we will be given jobs to do and have a 'life' to live, not just sit about idle for all eternity. If we are working and interacting with others then there will have to be some way of measuring time otherwise there would be no structure or order to the society. Imagine trying even to organise a simple meeting with someone if you coukd not reference a time frame. So I think there will be some way of defining time - it's just that the time will never come to an end, which makes it eternity.

[WVBORN56]

Our whole existence here is time oriented...

Time is of the essence
Time marches on
Time will tell.
Time and time again
No more time-outs for our kids
Time is up
Time to go
From time to time...
Time out
My least favorite as a child...Time for bed